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 Post subject: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:21 am 
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This is Väinämöinen from Kalevala:

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And this is Gandalf from Lord of the Rings:

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The former came before the latter... And a recent topic made me think about the similarities with Väinämöinen and Gandalf. Basically how for a Wizard Gandalf does not do all that much spell casting. But he does do quite a bit of shouting.

Thus, I started to think if it was possible to get a BARD PRC that has 'Power Word' spells as songs? With the added possibility to use Bardic music to cast 'utility' spells such as:
Quote:
Dimensional Anchor: Cleric: 4, Sorcerer/Wizard: 4
Sending: Cleric: 4, Sorcerer/Wizard: 5, Other: Cleric with Trade domain 3
Wall of Ice: Sorcerer/Wizard: 4, Other: Cleric with Cold domain 5
Wall of Stone: Cleric: 5, Druid: 5, Sorcerer/Wizard: 5
Whisperwind: Bard: 2, Sorcerer/Wizard: 2
Analyse Portal: Bard: 3, Sorcerer/Wizard: 3, Other: Cleric with Portal domain 3


You could call this PRC a Skald or something. Medium BAB would be just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:26 am 
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Would be interesting indeed to have such a class.

And limiting it to only power words not hardcore spells would be an exotic taste.

I'm not sure if giving it a spell book (As seen above) would be the best idea for the Dev teams as i believe that requires a lot of work? Maybe it doesn't?

But i can definitely say a power word like saint or sage bard PRC that maybe gives 4/10 or 6/10 ALL casting progression would be a fun and interesting concept for a PRC.

I will back this idea.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:19 am 
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Now don't quote me here as I'm not a scholar of Tolkiens works, but I think the reason Gandalf does so much shouting in the books/movies is that magic is based on willpower and oration. hence why when Gandalf shouts you shall not pass the Balrog is cast back, or when lady elf and co use the river to wash away the Nazgul.

Aside from that, I like the idea of a spellsinger class who call upon rhymes or chants or shouts to use magic.

However, this might just be an issue of RPing it not sure if any of our resident FR lore sages can throw in on this but I think the bard is very close to this concept or close enough that the RP could be stretched to it and reasonably cover it already.

Honestly, Bard and Runecaster split would be a great way to RP this concept giving it the Norse poetic edda flavour along with the lore background of bardic magic.

Sidebar: This would make a great dwarf.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Grendunor wrote:
Now don't quote me here as I'm not a scholar of Tolkiens works, but I think the reason Gandalf does so much shouting in the books/movies is that magic is based on willpower and oration. hence why when Gandalf shouts you shall not pass the Balrog is cast back, or when lady elf and co use the river to wash away the Nazgul.

Which is basically how spell casting works in Kalevala. People are singing each others into swamps and what not!

Thus, in addition to the power words, you could have stone/ice walls, or something that affects the surroundings in some way or another. Basically how the elven lady made the river come crashing down on the Nazgul.

Not to mention that both have their share of sword swinging, so it would be a PRC that focuses on 'battlefield' control.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Issue is Power Word Spells are pretty much useless in PvE since the enemies you would use them against have SO MANY HP that by the time you get them down to where the spells would prove useful, the battle has been decided.

In PvP I would be a bit concerned. Bards are already very strong, giving them the ability to Power Word Stun or Blind seems a bit too much.

Those are the only two that would be overly concerning. The others have such low HP totals as to be moot. Even Blind only works at 200 or less HP, but that is enough for some builds to end the encounter.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:11 pm 
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But with bardic songs you could probably have more uses than the typical cleric/wizard. For example the mobs in Reaching Woods seem to have 300-400 HP, so you can drop that blind when things are down to half their HP.

There are also spells that adjust the HP limits.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:14 pm 
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As for Tolkien lore...basically Gandalf and other "wizards" as well as balrogs elder dragons and Sauron etc. were basically divine spirits or lesser gods even so there are no actual magic users in tolkien lore below divinity and the "spells" are basically born abilities, no spellcasting involved as such. If you wanna read about it a bit here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maia_(Middle-earth) or read Silmarallion, highly recommended. To explain, while the mortal races use the word magic, even according to Tolkien it is rather that they call the skills they don't understand magic, than it being actually magic as we understand it, he even said he was too liberal with the word magic than was originally his plan.

As for bards having PrC with words of power...now I don't know about class like that existing per se, but I did read about something called "exalted bard" archetype, which are bards that channel magic through original Words of Creation (As the building blocks of the world rather than chanting actual words). But I'll be damned if I can find where I read it...it was some time ago when I was doing bard research for Alcarin. In any case...it would be pretty cool and I guess feasible in DnD/FR lore.

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:47 pm 
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And Väinämöinen is a demigod... You can read about the elvish languages here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvish_la ... ddle-earth)

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 Post subject: Re: A Bard PRC to grant 'Power Word' and 'Utility' Spells?
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:46 am 
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It would also give more options to people who want to play a more cross-class style of character.

From reading a few bio's on the forums i see a lot of people trying to cross class two main classes like sorcerer / spirit shaman, Wizard / Sorcerer, Cleric / Wizards.

Putting something in there that kind of gives the natural intensive to cross class a bard and something else seems like a more noob friendly and even veteran friendly theme for new and old class combination builders.

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