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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Arjay wrote:
For the record, I'm not at all aligning myself with the tone/attitude of the OP. I just enjoy that feat and figured why not.


I do too.


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Haste is persist-able in raw nwn2. Though I can see where your confusion might have arose, since the wiki article pictures were in "Improperly Flagged Spells". Regardless, haste was always persist-able in OC (play the game if you don't believe!) as it states in the haste wiki article and in the list of persist-able spells.

If persistent spell did come on this server (no doubt it won't, at-least not near this time), you can safely bet that haste, divine favor, bladeweave, death armor, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Body of the Sun, Vigor, and all the strong persist-able spells would be made none-persist-able. I remember ToA/PoS did similar when they allowed in persistent spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:45 pm 
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metaquad4 wrote:
Haste is persist-able in raw nwn2. Though I can see where your confusion might have arose, since the wiki article pictures were in "Improperly Flagged Spells". Regardless, haste was always persist-able in OC (play the game if you don't believe!) as it states in the haste wiki article and in the list of persist-able spells.
No one is disputing this. What's been pointed out is that you can turn off its ability to be persisted, as I'm sure ALL servers with persistent have done.

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If persistent spell did come on this server (no doubt it won't, at-least not near this time), you can safely bet that haste, divine favor, bladeweave, death armor, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Body of the Sun, Vigor, and all the strong persist-able spells would be made none-persist-able. I remember ToA/PoS did similar when they allowed in persistent spell.
Body of the sun is really the only one that needs it. Bladeweave and Death Armor are cool to use, but they're barely worth the lost spell slot from experience. Ditto with Clair/Clair. You're losing spell slots that you need, badly, for things like Shades or Premonition or high-end damage spells.


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:07 pm 
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metaquad4 wrote:
If persistent spell did come on this server (no doubt it won't, at-least not near this time), you can safely bet that haste, divine favor, bladeweave, death armor, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Body of the Sun, Vigor, and all the strong persist-able spells would be made none-persist-able. I remember ToA/PoS did similar when they allowed in persistent spell.


ToA/PoS did a lot of things wrong. I played both as well.

List of Spells that need persisting:
Divine Favor - Divine Favor last a minute and barely any longer than that with extended meaning you would be casting this several times taking away from healing spells. Without persistent spell, it's near useless or doesn't get use much. If that is the goal then get rid of the spell.

Clairaudience/Clairvoyance - You can persist Camouflage. If you can persist that, you can persist CC in contrast.

Vigor - Yes maybe if there are regeneration items then I don't see the harm in spells.

Bull strength, Bear's endurance, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunny, and Cat's Grace - Saves healing spells or damaging spells

Bladeweave, Death Armor, Shield - Saves on damaging spells

Bless and Prayer - In other servers that I have been in Bless being able to buffing a whole team is seen as too powerful and Prayer was nerfed supposely adds a curse...which can be removed with lesser restoration.

There are more spells, I'll post later, but right now I need sleep.


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:55 pm 
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I do have to agree that ToA/PoS should not be used as an example of... well, ANYTHING.


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 pm 
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ARHicks00 wrote:
Divine Favor - Divine Favor last a minute and barely any longer than that with extended meaning you would be casting this several times taking away from healing spells. Without persistent spell, it's near useless or doesn't get use much. If that is the goal then get rid of the spell.

Tell me more about those level 1 and 2 healing spells! :lol: Don't get me wrong, Lesser Vigor is a great healing spell at low levels... But you get better spells at higher spells levels that no longer stack with Lesser Vigor on this server.

Most of my DC cleric's first level spell slots go to Divine Favor because there literally is not other spells worthy to be memorized. An enemy appears, my cleric casts Divine Power followed by Divine Favor... and I usually run out of Divine Power way before Divine Favor.

And don't get me started on Bladeweave! :lol:

Oh well, have fun learning actual in game mechanics! And that is all I will add to this thread. (Oh, and do remember to have a look at the custom in game spells too while you are at it.)

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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Arjay wrote:
I do have to agree that ToA/PoS should not be used as an example of... well, ANYTHING.


https://youtu.be/ja0jS_toKxk

Sun Wukong wrote:
Tell me more about those level 1 and 2 healing spells! :lol: Don't get me wrong, Lesser Vigor is a great healing spell at low levels... But you get better spells at higher spells levels that no longer stack with Lesser Vigor on this server.

Most of my DC cleric's first level spell slots go to Divine Favor because there literally is not other spells worthy to be memorized. An enemy appears, my cleric casts Divine Power followed by Divine Favor... and I usually run out of Divine Power way before Divine Favor


I use level spells for healing and often combine augmented healing with empowered healing and maximize spell feat for maximum healing. So my low level heals can restore a good chunk of health for low level characters. Not every cleric tries to be a battle cleric, but I also like to have versatility of being able to melee, heal, range attack, and nuke when needed.

Thus, the reason why I think Divine Favor should be persistable. Divine Favor is 1 minute per casting while Divine Power is 6 seconds/1 round per level so it only makes sense that you cast Divine Power before Divine Favor. Divine Power last longer than Divine Favor, it is just that you have less casting of Divine Power due to fact Extended Divine Power takes up more important upper level spell slots.

As person who plays Clerics a lot, I rarely use 9th level spels except persisrent slot since most of the upper level spells aren't very effective or my build's spell DC is too low to spell fling due to being too versatile.

Quote:
And don't get me started on Bladeweave! :lol:


The DC maybe low with being a DC of 16, but there is an off chance an enemy npc may roll a 1 and allow the mage the upper hand so I see no real reason to not let it be persistent.


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:04 am 
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Arjay wrote:
No one is disputing this. What's been pointed out is that you can turn off its ability to be persisted, as I'm sure ALL servers with persistent have done.

You are wrong, example: scod, rot, haven


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:35 am 
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Born2BeWild wrote:
Arjay wrote:
No one is disputing this. What's been pointed out is that you can turn off its ability to be persisted, as I'm sure ALL servers with persistent have done.

You are wrong, example: scod, rot, haven


Dalelands, Tales of Amn, and Port of Shadows. The fact the spells were unpersisted in these servers means there is no excuse for why persistent spell feat was removed. That is why I said what I said in my third post on the first page because there was absolutely no reason to remove the feat when you can editted the spells as opposed to removing the feat.

It is just as silly as Bards only have 5 feats in this game when Kaedrin and SoZ introduced several more. Kind of sad you can't play a pure bard without being encouraged to multi class to do anything worthwhile with the class outside of dump-Charisma wannabe Sorcerer.

Just as it is silly to argue +4 items are okay, but persistent spells are way overpowered. There is no consistency to logic and it only brings attention to the fact that it was removed because server is too focus on stopping power building. (While pigeonholing you into making a specific powerbuild)


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:48 am 
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Where are you pigeonholed in specific powerbuilds ?

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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:50 am 
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Bladeweave would be crazy OP if persisted. Have you guys even tried it? I use it often on my bard as an extended slot and he usually dazes opponents within the first round. All it takes is a bad roll and they're dead.

I usually don't get involved on balance issues now because everyones idea of balance is different. The only thing that bugs me from time to time is the (seemingly) constant empowerment of casting classes. Persistant spell would do this (again).

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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:52 am 
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Thats still not ALL servers, just some of them


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:44 am 
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Hammer_Song wrote:
Bladeweave would be crazy OP if persisted. Have you guys even tried it? I use it often on my bard as an extended slot and he usually dazes opponents within the first round. All it takes is a bad roll and they're dead.

I usually don't get involved on balance issues now because everyones idea of balance is different. The only thing that bugs me from time to time is the (seemingly) constant empowerment of casting classes. Persistant spell would do this (again).


1. I have a gish build back in Dalelands who has persisted and no. The DC on it is low, you sometimes forget you have it until one of your enemy NPCs rolls 1, which is rare. When the person is hit, it is not an auto death nor will o t cause a chain to create a stunlocj effect.

2. Persistent spell does empower anything, butbfree up slots for extra damage spells, CCs, or healing spells.


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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:07 am 
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ARHicks00 wrote:
Hammer_Song wrote:
Bladeweave would be crazy OP if persisted. Have you guys even tried it? I use it often on my bard as an extended slot and he usually dazes opponents within the first round. All it takes is a bad roll and they're dead.

I usually don't get involved on balance issues now because everyones idea of balance is different. The only thing that bugs me from time to time is the (seemingly) constant empowerment of casting classes. Persistant spell would do this (again).


1. I have a gish build back in Dalelands who has persisted and no. The DC on it is low, you sometimes forget you have it until one of your enemy NPCs rolls 1, which is rare. When the person is hit, it is not an auto death nor will o t cause a chain to create a stunlocj effect.

2. Persistent spell does empower anything, butbfree up slots for extra damage spells, CCs, or healing spells.


What's Dalelands got to do with this? My build is on THIS server, with OUR mobs. Their will saves rarely succeed ALL their saves over the course of a fight. It works VERY well on OUR server because it forces many saves - the opponent will inevitably fail. And yes, when they do, they rarely come out of the daze against a melee bard. Again, this is talking purely from a BGTSCC perspective, which is the only one that matters in this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Persistent Spells
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:44 am 
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I can't think of any round per level spells I'd want to see persisted that have mechanical use. OP

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