Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hi again folks,

So I returned from a rather long hiatus a few weeks ago and I have to say, I'm feeling a bit weak at the moment.

This could be my build, the player, or the meta itself of the world. I'm looking for perhaps a bit more guidance on what it might be. (Could be a combo of all three)

I'll give you a fairly generic summary: I've been out in Serpent Hills / YuanTi / Naga land since I got back. 23rd level. My original character idea was an absolutely pure unadulterated wizard. So like 14 wizard / 10 archmage (I'm here now basically) and then what? I don't think I can prestige AM past 10 levels right?

I've been wandering around with a variety of folks who've joined me on my little adventure. The notable standouts have been a rogue hybrid of some sort and a fighter / gish. When they arrive I basically turn into a Stoneskin / GHero / GWM / buff battery as I'm all but useless for DPS.

Let me say that again, I'm a full spec wizard and my DPS cannot even begin to touch these melee classes. That seems... odd, to me. The reason being that part of the trade off of wizzy is they are REALLY hard to level in the first 10 levels or so, and even challenging in the teens but then they are suppose to peak late game. I'm having the opposite experience.

By the time I get a cast off on IGMS or similar the monster is face down already. These two characters I run with are doing 40-60 dmg (expose weakness) per swing on average with multi-attack. So they are putting out hundreds of points of dmg in a few seconds.

My best IGMS may get near that after a full cast time. Melee wise, I'm running the shapechange w/ buffs dealie and again, not even close. My AC is very decent mainly because I have better than average gear and w/ buffs. So its not so much about that.

My AB however is pitiful. The fire giant SC you get about 32 AB total give or take. I can peck away at the monsters for 25-45 dmg per swing once a round. That is against the 100-200 the melee guys are putting out.

They said they have about 40-50 AB give or take w/ buffs, etc. Double or triple my hitpoints, and similar AC. The immediate response is usually, well you are a wizard so... <reasons> and I get that, but again from a meta standpoint wizards are suppose to be near the top of DPS output. I can dump all my spells and compete, but run out quickly. They are basically a walking IGMS that never runs out of charges.

I am using summons but the summons that actually lasts is GPBinding and the creature is sub-20 HD so not terribly useful in epics. I have Epic Gate, that is a very decent tank no matter what I call but it simply doesn't last long enough. So they are all cannon fodder at best even w/ a full stack of buffs.

The other thing about the melee classes was that they should be weak to magic, and granted they do get more magic hits than I do but the issue is, when you can take 3-5 swings at that monster and drop it even the mobs don't really have time to cast anything.

I really like this character idea of purist mage but its appearing more & more things are simply tuned for min/maxed gishes so I am going to have to RCR to flavour of the month which I REALLY don't want to do.

I went separately with each one of them and watched them facetank and steamroll the entire Yuan-Ti temple w/o breaking a sweat. That would have taken me many rests and much much longer.

So this post is partly whining (lol!), partly legit asking for advice about the class, and partly interest in whether my assessment of the meta is on point or not.

Caveat: I am aware that YT temple is "scaled for a full party" that is not the point here. The point is single characters are facemelting the place w/ nary a rest being needed. So the boilerplate response of what the dungeon is tuned for is not what I'm asking about. Likewise Serpent Hills itself which is more geared towards solo produces the same basic result as the dungeons so its still a thing.

Do you know about the Augment Form Feat for Polymorphing arcane casters?

I'd say you might get better results utilizing the current 100% RCR period to change your build to Wizard 10 / Arcane Scholar 10 / Arch Mage 10. Or choose to go only Arch Mage 6 and choose 4 levels in something additionally beneficial, like Rogue 4 or Cleric 4.

Unfortunately, there are no renuable sources of damage except for reserve feats, using summons or utilizing the new PolyMorph and Shapechange game elements for pure non gish arcane casters.


In PnP, all those killer spells and utility spells could be held back for that one big fight, and the party would support you the rest of the way.

This game, does not translate very well for us.

Hi there, to expand on what Steve said and hopefully help answer some of your questions.

1. Wizards are not DPS (at least not on BGtSCC). Simply put, damage spells are not beneficial in the long run.

2. If you do want to use blasting spells, you really want ASOC 10 in your build. In most cases Empowered/Maximized Spells are better than the spells one/two levels higher. Thus getting Practical Metamagic makes it so you can cast Empowered Firebrand which will do more damage than IGMS and effect more enemies (with a save for half). Practical Quicken also allows you to throw a Quickened spell followed by an empowered spell in one round for big fights.

3. Honestly? Let the melee's handle the light work. As a Wizard you are there to handle the truly difficult battles. You don't deal with every scrub Naga, you disable the dragon-thing. You don't mess with Yuan-Ti Guardians, you wax the Yuan-Ti Queen!

4. If you want ultimate Wizard power you need to focus on understanding your full spell book. Cloud spells are amazing and great for spell economy. Summons are good, but better if you are a GSF/ESF Conjuration Specialist and you spend the slots to buff them up heavily. However, you are in a party so summons are not the way to go. For you it should be about buffing your mates, watching them have their fun, then when you get to the boss you smack them down with Wail of the Banshee or Empowered Polar Ray (requires Arcane Scholar) or Empowered Disintegrate or completely disable them with things like Solipsism. Or pit them against themselves with Shadow Simulacrum (or use the spell on a powerful ally!)

I recommend focusing on getting strong DCs in a school (SF/GSF/ESF) an Epic Spell and a whole bunch of Great INT feats. Try to have your strongest DC spell at least be around 38 or so for PvE and don't think of your power spells as blasting. Your power spells are save or else spells. Your economy is cloud spells and your blasting spells are just there for the pretty colors, really.

Remember a wizard is at its most powerful before it has used any spells. I realise this sounds a bit silly, but it's literally the truth. You have only so much ammo, but all of it can be used very efficiently.

You're not the infantry. You're the airstrike.

Another victim of the mmo mentality where everyone is trying to 'Be the best, out DPS!' If you've got friends that are carrying you through every dungeon then you've found the right place to be as a wizard.

Remember: mobs on BGTSCC have utterly bloated HP pools so if you can't effectively 1 shot them with a save or else spell, don't even bother casting. You're not a warlock. The role of the party wizard is to do as little as possible until your allies actually need some help. Then you unleash hell.

Tsidkenu wrote:Another victim of the mmo mentality where everyone is trying to 'Be the best, out DPS!' If you've got friends that are carrying you through every dungeon then you've found the right place to be as a wizard.

As sure as the sun rises in the west I was certain there would be at least one smarmy condescending knobish response, but from a forum moderator I didn't expect. That is a new one...

I'm glad you think I need to be 'carried'. How you people get to Mod positions is a mystery, you are wholly unfit for the title when someone asks an honest question from lack of NWN experience but volumes of P&P experience. Physician, heal thyself.

Interesting interpretation of what was a benign and non-hostile comment. But if you want to believe, for whatever reason, that the DnD party wizard's sole role is to be chief DPS outputter as per the primary complaint in your OP, please at least be humble enough to realise that isn't the way BG's meta works and adjust your playstyle accordingly.

If you want to go blasty-casty, Warlock is your best bet.

Even in D&D 3.5, where you may have been limited to 2 (maybe 3 if your group decided to go past midnight) combat encounters per evening around the table, the Wizard still shone brightest as the battlefield-control/Save-or-Lose/buff-master. Rolling the clock back to a decade ago, Being Batman: the Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards was a notable staple in wizard play for pen-and-paper. While not directly relatable to NWN2, considering NWN2's perpetual onslaught of enemies in between each rest cycle, the spirit of such playstyle for PvE party-play is just that much more effective.

In pnp I always played fighters as tanks/DPS. Fight is litterally in their name after all. Rogues had to sneak around as entering serious combat was a near guaranteed death. They could surprise an enemy sure but never over and over again. Much better for them to steal a map or lie to a guard. Wizards didn't fight at all, they out thought their opponents. Nothing better than that gandolf moment when they solve the entire sessions quest with a cantrip 5 minutes in.

To be honest play your wizard for the events. Stock your spell books with rp spells not fireballs. Be the adventurer that RP's while others grind. Or roll a bard and out DPS them with wagic whistles.

Darkwind wrote:

Tsidkenu wrote:Another victim of the mmo mentality where everyone is trying to 'Be the best, out DPS!' If you've got friends that are carrying you through every dungeon then you've found the right place to be as a wizard.

As sure as the sun rises in the west I was certain there would be at least one smarmy condescending knobish response, but from a forum moderator I didn't expect. That is a new one...

I'm glad you think I need to be 'carried'. How you people get to Mod positions is a mystery, you are wholly unfit for the title when someone asks an honest question from lack of NWN experience but volumes of P&P experience. Physician, heal thyself.

I don't think that is what Tsidkenu meant, although I do understand how you interpreted it that way. Perhaps a few poorly chosen phrasings by the forum moderator.

The point is that wizard is never going to be efficient entirely on its own unless it is a gish. Being in a party is always better (although that counts for practically everyone, it is more clear with a wizard). But you don't have to rely on other players in order to not be alone. Use a summon and buff it up. We even have some summons on the server that are far better than the vanilla ones.

When I have been soloing as a wizard, I've used a summon or a dominated creature (dominate monster lasts quite long and in the higher levels they're always going to be superior to a summon). Then I buff it with a long line of buffs: IMA, Spiderskin, Stoneskin, Greater Heroism, GMW (even if it doesn't have a weapon, this has some benefits to most creatures), bears, bulls, cats, protection from evil and sometimes enlarge person (although this doesn't work on every creature).

And then I go invisible and let the summon/dominated do all the work. I give it haste very now and then. And then if it gets overwhelmed by many mobs, I cast some AoEs then reapply invisibility once the combat is over.

Alternatively you can go Shapechange and hit pretty well even with the low BAB of a wizard. Combine that with a summon, and you'll be fairly effective. Fire Giant hits hardest of the shapes, but has the lowest defenses.

If you want to do constant damage, a daggerspell build using the Invisible Needle reserve feat will let you have some reliable damage that doesn't cost more than one prepped Bigby 9 that you don't cast. Otherwise, as mentioned, a shapechange focused build (this will play like a gish), or being a thaumaturge and using summons will allow you to contribute in a group setting.

Otherwise, wizards fill a support role in NWN 2. You may take issue with Tsid's phrasing, but wizards really are at their best buffing the party and tailing along. Your buffs are a big deal, and you have enough spell slots left to unleash hell on particularly dangerous groups.

. . .

Thanks for all the info. Sorry for my second remark I was a bit grumpy because my dreams of raining hellfire have been dashed upon the rocks of the meta I suppose.

I think w/ the full RCR currently in effect I have some opportunity to 'test drive' lots of what was recommended here and am going to take advantage of that. *hat tip*

p.s. Steve I'm also considering in addition to the sorc / AM a hellfire warlock since that seems to be the 'go to' blaster build.

Don't discount a Sorcerer/Arch Mage with Arcane Fire!