Warrior Priest of Sigmar

[Azrael]

This is a Warrior Priest of Sigmar from Warhammer Fantasy lore.

There look can somewhat be replicated with what we have in game. Some of the gods could fit fairly well also.

How would you stat it? Build me the fiercest Warror Priest of Sigmar (We'll call it an appropriate Forgotten Realms Deity's name) you can manage. Crusader 30 seems a thing. Paladin 20 / Divine Champion 10 Great Smiter perhaps also. But I suspect there may be better suggestions to come still. What can truly carry that hammer and bring the Fear of God to the foes of Faith. Some Shock & Awe faction to it perhaps. Somehow.

Good luck and may the best hammer-wielding zealot win!

[Deathgrowl]

Reads like a highly militant priest of Torm.

Paladin20/Divine champion10 is a worse build than Paladin30, by the way. The spells are that good, and you are only getting more 1 bonus epic feat anyways due to the 3by20 rule.

[metaquad4]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?297041

You can wield any weapon with this one, it'd only lose a little bit of damage from not having scimitar (as scimitar has a good crit range and there are some really good scimitars available, I used scimitar for damage calculations). Damage lost would probably be reasonably negligible.

[chad878262]

Could also go edm cleric 30 or favored soul 26/ paladin 4...

[Azrael]

@Chad, I've been thinking of Fvs, but there's no deity that would fit and offer a warmace as a weapon focus/specialization. It may be a bit too heavy on the spellcasting side, but I'm not too opposed to it so far due to that alone.

@Metaquad Divinate seems a good idea. Some spells, but not too many. Is there a strength variant to it as well, or does it have to be EDM? Also, what are advantages of divinate 30 over crusader 30? I've noticed some forum replies simply stating "Crusader 30" as if it was this overpowered class, but I'm not sure why.

[Invoker]

Before the PSC fix I would have probably recommended you a Cle23/FB7 or some such.

Right now, I reckon STR Cleric (if you don't want EDM) Warpriest (8) Hospitaler to be a good mix. Personally speaking, I would play this as WIS cleric, but obviously I reckon you'd want to retain a "warrior feel" for the build.

[Deathgrowl]

Before the PSC fix I would have probably recommended you a Cle23/FB7 or some such.

You mean the dispel fix? Or is FB something else here than Frenzied Berserker? PSC fix didn't do anything to this particular split.

If you do mean the dispel fix, then cleric13/hierophant10/fb7 should do the same trick with one less epic feat.

Why FB7, though? Isn't 5 enough?

Also, FB can't be lawful. This particular kind of warrior priest is hyper lawful from the description...

[Invoker]

You mean the dispel fix? Or is FB something else here than Frenzied Berserker? PSC fix didn't do anything to this particular split.

They went in together. PSC and CL fix (not really Dispel fix, because Dispels were never changed, if you want to be precise).

If you do mean the dispel fix, then cleric13/hierophant10/fb7 should do the same trick with one less epic feat.

Hierophant came in game about the same time. If you mean that the above works with the CL it gets...it's a very bad build.

Why FB7, though? Isn't 5 enough?

Even zero is enough. FB7 means full STR cleric, no EDM, no need for short-term buffs unless you PvP or fight a boss. It's a sweet spot, considering the long term buffs cleric has in its arsenal.

Also, FB can't be lawful. This particular kind of warrior priest is hyper lawful from the description...

It's a very fair point. I'm not sure about the alignment it should have. Probably.

[metaquad4]

@Chad, I've been thinking of Fvs, but there's no deity that would fit and offer a warmace as a weapon focus/specialization. It may be a bit too heavy on the spellcasting side, but I'm not too opposed to it so far due to that alone.

@Metaquad Divinate seems a good idea. Some spells, but not too many. Is there a strength variant to it as well, or does it have to be EDM? Also, what are advantages of divinate 30 over crusader 30? I've noticed some forum replies simply stating "Crusader 30" as if it was this overpowered class, but I'm not sure why.

EDM is useful, as paladins can buff themselves to gain +12 STR and +8 CHA. This gives them a little more EDM damage than your typical EDMer and it allows them to not have to skimp on STR.

Divinate trades your weakest ability on this kind of build (smite evil) for another spellslot at 1, 2, and 3, as well as auto-extended spells (allowing you to not have to take extend spell and have a bit more flexibility with your book). It is a very good kit, for an EDM build.

Crusader is truely an awful kit. If anyone unironically recomends it to you, you can be fairly safe that they either underestimate paladin buffs, have no idea what they are doing, or both.

[Azrael]

That build has 10 wisdom. That means you need the +4 wisdom amulet to cast spells. Where do you get your natural AC from then?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?297041

You can wield any weapon with this one, it'd only lose a little bit of damage from not having scimitar (as scimitar has a good crit range and there are some really good scimitars available, I used scimitar for damage calculations). Damage lost would probably be reasonably negligible.

[metaquad4]

That build has 10 wisdom. That means you need the +4 wisdom amulet to cast spells. Where do you get your natural AC from then?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?297041

You can wield any weapon with this one, it'd only lose a little bit of damage from not having scimitar (as scimitar has a good crit range and there are some really good scimitars available, I used scimitar for damage calculations). Damage lost would probably be reasonably negligible.

Oh yeah, fair point. Can always either:
1) Take 2 from CON, put into WIS. Who needs HP!
2) Get a UMD item for spiderskin or barkskin.

Also, I'm not 100% sure if a paladin kit will progress paladin levels for the purpose of epic bonus feats, now that I consider that. If it doesn't then paladin 20/hospitalier 10 would become nessecary to get bonus feats. You'd lose 2 CHA and would have to take epic prowess instead of an odd cha.

[Deathgrowl]

If you do mean the dispel fix, then cleric13/hierophant10/fb7 should do the same trick with one less epic feat.

Hierophant came in game about the same time. If you mean that the above works with the CL it gets...it's a very bad build.

It gets 30 CL, Invoker. +4 from PSC and +3 from hierophant. This is higher CL than the cleric23/fb7 you suggested that would work prior to the CL/dispel fix. So it doesn't get dispelled any more now than that would have been then.

With one less epic feat. That's the only real difference. And that one epic feat loss is enough to make it "a very bad build"?

[Invoker]

It gets 30 CL, Invoker. +4 from PSC and +3 from hierophant. This is higher CL than the cleric23/fb7 you suggested that would work prior to the CL/dispel fix. So it doesn't get dispelled any more now than that would have been then.

With one less epic feat. That's the only real difference. And that one epic feat loss is enough to make it "a very bad build"?

I had written an elaborate response on how much I dislike a Hierophant with CL 30 and low WIS, or how feat-starved I found the build, in comparison with what cle23/fb7 was easily getting pre-PSC/CL fix. Then I scrapped it, because chatting with my good friend Chad, we discovered that's not really what bothers me in the build...and in fact, it's not the build, but the entire concept of a STR Cleric right now.

I think I simply can't see a reason to not go high WIS on a Cleric anymore. I don't think the "one less epic feat" is the real difference, nor the fact Warpriest instead of FB would be an improvement. It's really all in having to take Hierophant to cover up for FB is a statement: taking FB isn't such a good idea. Cle 26/X4 (where X= AK, or even WP itself, Fighter, Blackguard...whatever) is at that point simply better. Never mind that it would be much better as a WIS Cleric...with Hierophant.

[chad878262]

Honestly, Cleric 30 does the trick. Grab Strength Domain and whatever other domain you want (protection works really well with a bunch of cleric levels, making Helm a good deity selection so that you can grab Strength and Protection). You could also go C26/AK4 as Invoker suggests, which is what I would do. You have to take Iron Will, but in return you get Toughness, Blind Fighting, Tower Shields, and Tumble skill so more than a fair trade (as a bonus you can put +1 damage on your weapon to kill trolls and stuff). The C26/AK4 would be my pick for what you appear to want out of your build, though a Paladin 30 still works.

I will just add for Paladin that I agree divinate is the best kit. However, I do not think it's better than vanilla paladin. It gives up a feat (requires True Believer) as well as Smite Evil which on a pure paladin gives decent nova damage 7 times per day. While having free extend on all spells is very good, with proper spell management it is more of a luxury than a power increase. Vanilla is the strongest Paladin, followed by Divinate and then Cavalier (I agree Crusader is a poor choice). Finally, I would argue dropping CHA a couple points in the posted build will allow you to put points in WIS. Ending with 22 STR/24 CHA is plenty since after 30 minute (or 60 for divinate) buffs you have 30 STR and 32 CHA. That is +22 damage for 22 rounds for every use of EDM and +11 AC for 11 rounds when you use divine shield. So just start with 16 STR/CHA and 14 WIS... However, it should be noted that there are items that have great synergy for Paladin that give +2 CON/+2 WIS and other benefits so leaving WIS at 12 isn't the worst thing in the world. Finally, with such good saves you should consider some defensive feats. Disarm is cool and all, but steadfast is a nice pickup with your amazing saves (especially if you get toughness from AK, but then you also want Practiced Caster, still a net gain IMO).