Resurrection/Raise Dead

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Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by VDub » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm

I would like to suggest that a material component of gold be added to both spells per PnP rules. 5000 gp for raise dead 10000 gp for resurrection.

It would not only add depth to the PW, but would make deaths actually mean something. The gold piece value would simulate the diamond(s) that would be needed to bring the dead character or NPC back to life.

EDIT: I'd also like to see the spell restricted to those that can actually cast it. The fact that any schmo can use a raise dead scroll takes away from the classes that have the spell.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:46 pm

Automatically applied rather than needing to purchase rather than item bearing.

Level 30 deaths taking away GP equivalency of 100/level if raised by Myrkul.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Glowfire » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Scrolls should also need have the added costs, like Teleport and Greater Teleport. I'd be in favour of this but only if the NPC priests also had their Raise Dead costs increased (possibly with +1000 because priests don't work for free).

Raise Dead scrolls should long ago have been made with the correct restrictions.

Priestly RP is awkward when trying to do the whole diamond-ress thing and characters are saying "I have a 600 gp scroll. Why are you paying him, it's a rip-off!"
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Tsidkenu » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:34 pm

Id personally like to see all said scrolls removed from circulation entirely (loot, npc merchant in Roaringshore) in addition to the cost increase. Only clerics with Scribe Scroll should be able to circulate them.

An option of actually being able to burn a diamond or two instead of paying 5k/10k in gold would also be good, since those gems already have those RP values.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Valefort » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:39 pm

NPC priest should remain with low gold cost, think about the real newcomers, for the rest I agree !
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by chad878262 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:54 pm

Valefort wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:39 pm
think about the real newcomers
Yep, they'll feel really good about being left dead because they're too far from an NPC priest for the loot runner to bother toting them back to civilization... ;)

While I wouldn't mind the rarity and/or cost of raise dead scrolls being increased I think doing more than that is a relatively bad idea. End of the day it is a game and players play to enjoy their free time. I know many players that will dutifully wait in Fugue for some passerby to find their corpse rather than eating the XP penalty. Without ready access to scrolls many an adventurer will simply leave them to rot if they are unlucky enough to bite it more than a transition or two from a town/temple.

I'm fine either way as are the majority of long time players, the only folks such changes hurt are newbies experiencing the server for the first time.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:45 pm

Most of the time (if not always) though the players treat PvE deathes as knockdowns, so this change wouldn't make any slightest sense. If you want to roleplay an actual resurrection of a character who roleplays a corpse willingly, you can roleplay using the same cost (say, remove the diamonds from your inventory and assume they are consumed in process).

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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by enginseer-42 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:50 pm

I mean, the issue with this logic is that the only thing it will mean is that the person says Yes to Myrkul, loses a bit of XP, then grinds a little bit longer.

It's not going to make them actually stay dead. I frankly much prefer the RP of 'So and So has a scroll of Raise Dead' and then treating it like they're 'only mostly dead' a la princess bride, then trying to somehow reconcile someone dying with them showing up AHEAD of us back at the Gate. Or just showing up again later with no explanation whatsoever. This won't make death mean something, it will just make people ignore it entirely as OOC.

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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Wandering_Woodsman » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:08 pm

If we're even goin' to start touchin' the topic of NPC priests offering their services for a higher cost, then I have a MAJOR bone to pick with that.

If they're going to start saying "oh, we need money for our temples, and to support our religion" then why in the bloody freakin' hell don't they sell HALF the things that single player does? For starters, BASIC FREAKING HEAL POTIONS at ANY TEMPLE was pretty much a standard go-to for starting out.

And yet, half the supplies you'd expect..don't exist. It's "oh, I'll heal you for x amount." but no actual supplies to take with you.

Sorry gents, but that don't fly in my book. If the priests are hard up for money because resurrection coin only goes so far, then they should start actually offerin the services that most of their religions endorse.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Nyssis » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:13 am

I'm fine with adding a gp cost to using Raise Dead and other forms of resuscitation. I'm also fine with a gp cost for level 30s that respawn.

However, changing scrolls to be UMD- or class limitation-exclusive seems like a decision made with only level 30s in mind. I feel it is important to consider the lower level players on the server, or the people who are unfamiliar with the areas and their spawns because they are new. What about deaths that come from lag or disconnect? What about near-TPKs in the middle of a dungeon for the 11-20 leveling range?

This change would severely punish the newbies/lowbies who didn't build with UMD as a class skill, doubly so if they are low STR and can't ferry a friend's corpse (or multiple corpses) out of a dungeon to see a priest. It would condemn them to taking an experience penalty, or as chad mentioned they sit in the Fugue for hours to avoid it. I don't think it is worth the cost of their enjoyment.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Svabodnik » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:59 am

On the note of the Raise Dead scrolls, as far as I know the ones created by Scribe Scroll do require proper class/UMD, and there are no NPC merchants that carry them, so the only way to get access to them are from random drops. They fill the niche of a randomly found token for resuscitating a fallen party member, regardless the form they take. They could be renamed to 'smelling salts', 'phoenix down', 'Dead Man's rum', etc. to concretely separate them from the cleric's resurrection shtick, but I still see the use for them in PvE.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by metaquad4 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:56 am

1) I am not overly opposed to a gold cost IF it means that the terrible undead demon-pacted aborted fetus that is the channelling mechanic can be removed from the spell.

2) I wouldn't arbitrarily remove the scrolls. That isn't really a great idea and will just make the game less enjoyable overall.

So yeah. Nerf/buff. Take away the channelling mechanic, replace with gold cost.

I don't think going up to 5000/10000 is a good idea but I also don't grind on a regular basis so I am slightly biased towards the people who aren't overflowing with unneeded gold 24/7. 1500/4000 seems more reasonable and in-line with current spell costs.

Leaving that channelling mechanic and adding in a spell cost is going to be a new level of hell that I don't think is very productive to the server.

I mean, the best case scenario would be to remove both the channelling mechanic and getting rid of a gold cost. Buuut who likes fun, right?

Also, as a note:
What this will do is the following:
-Buff those who do grind on a regular basis with the ability to RP a part of their class as normal.
-Nerf those who don't grind regularly, as they will now either face the choice of grinding to use their spell as normal or not grinding and limiting their use or not using it at all.
-Either slightly empower or nerf Spirit Shaman's own RP power, depending on how it is applied to the feat.

This is why I don't like grinding requirements for this kind of RP server. It doesn't add anything to the "fun factor", it doesn't add anything substantial to the RP, other than perhaps some panhandling RP for the poorer players, it can actually DETRACT from the RP (since people now need to spend time grinding rather than RPing). Some people (most people I know) have limited playtime, and would rather spend their time RPing than grinding, too.

When you nerf their RP power and tell them that they need to grind to get it back, that isn't really encouraging. And that is essentially what this does.

Death meaning more grinding doesn't give death meaning. It just removes people from the RP pool until they have finished their grind. And adds in a frustration factor. I'm not sure how being forced to participate in a subpar PvE experience equates to "meaning".
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Glowfire » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:56 am

From what I've seen, whenever a cleric/dead PC needs diamonds/gold to resurrect someone, others are quite happy to provide it.

If the gold costs are considered too high, I'd be tempted to say... "Don't die." :lol: ...but if they really are deemed to high, they can be lowered to something more appropriate. The cost of the Raise Dead scrolls from Roaringshore and even Raise Dead by NPC priests is too cheap IMO.

...and as always, if you can't pay the gold cost, there's the xp cost. XP is much easier to gain now than it was even a few years ago.

Even if there isn't a gold cost etc added, I'd still like to see staff make Raise Dead scrolls class restricted as they should be. If you want to allow new players a bit of ease, then add 'Smelling Salts' with a different symbol in some stores and a description that they can't bring back characters from 'actual death' just the knocked out/unconscious 'deaths'.

I'm also not fond of the channelling on any spell in game actually. The channelling can break easily and makes scrolls a nicer option because the scrolls are instant (which is silly?).
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Tekill » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:33 pm

No to any gold increases for revival, especially the high amounts listed in the thread.

I suppose I would not object if you could make it so that UMD check for a raise dead scrolls or resurrection were much higher.

How about a death penalty. I die, I'm raised, I suffer death penalties for a few real life hours until I recover. It would apply to all levels and a would be a solid deterrent for actually dying.
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Re: Resurrection/Raise Dead

Unread post by Steve » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:12 pm

How about remove Death altogether? Characters are "knocked out" unless in a DM-overseen Event, or as it is currently where a Player chooses to kill off their toon, where Death could be real (at least a Strike towards 3 = Permadeath).

Make PC and NPC Clerics great again.

Oh yeah...and when a Level 30 "dies," they have a 1d4 Level reduction from Myrkul. :twisted:

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