Halfling War Slinger

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Gurps
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Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Gurps » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:21 pm

Hello! First off let me start by saying that I am new to the server but have been enjoying it thoroughly since I got here. A few classes struck me as interesting with the two at the forefront being Elemental Archer and Halfling Warslinger. I always thought slings had a bad wrap so seeing a class centered around enticed me.

I spent quite a while making a build focused around sling with the primary classes of my build being rogue/assassin. After getting around level 15 where I had a level in warslinger I began to notice how lackluster the build is if you're not going pure fighter with min/max strength.

This struck me as kind of a surprise since it is called HALFLING warslinger and halflings are, traditionally, rogues. The class even has stealth as class skills. I had an idea that it would be something like the Master Thrower PRC. The fact is, though, that fighter will do better each time with the class. For this I have a few suggestions.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Warsling_Sniper

As you can see from the link the class is rather underwhelming with big gaps in progression and some useless abilities that don't really help the strength of the build but are more just extra pickups.

Here is what I suggest:

- Hit Die: d6

- Base Attack Bonus: High

- High Saves: Reflex

- Weapon Proficiencies: A Halfling Warslinger gains no weapon proficiencies.

- Armor Proficiencies: A Halfling Warslinger gains no armor proficiencies.

- Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier.

- Class Skills: Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Hide, Listen, Move silently, Sense Motive, Spot.

- Spells per Day/Spells Known: This class offers no spell progression.

- Class Feats
1: Sniper's Vision, Choose DEX or STR for dmg
2: Weapon Spec sling
3: Ricochet Shot, Fighter Bonus Feat
4: Greater Weapon Spec sling
5: Improved Crit, Sling
6: Improved Ricochet, Fighter Bonus Feat

These suggestions allow for the class to be viable for not only fighters but dex based halfling builds which is the primary use of the halfling race. The weapon spec and bonus feats allows for ranged weapon mastery and a few other essential ranged feats to be picked up along the way while providing them with more options for other feats. This will also beef up the STR based fighter example of the build but it wasn't that great to begin with.

I believe these suggestions, or something along these lines will help make the class more viable! Thank you for reading.

Gnomocracy
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Gnomocracy » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:56 am

I'll chime in here as well.

I'd love to see some sneaks with slings be a bit more viable. What I'd love more is opening that class to other races and just calling it "Slinger" or "War Slinger". I was eyeing that PRC for a while when I was pondering on who to make my main gnome, alas it wasn't ment to be. Sling seems like the perfect weapon for the shorter races for that David vs Goliath feel, so I'd be entirely happy if it was expanded to include some other races.

I will say that I don't really know the lore behind it and if there's any loreful reasons on why it's a halfling-only class.

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Tsidkenu
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Tsidkenu » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:16 am

And in a stroke of pure irony, the halfling "Good Aim" feat does not affect slings, only thrown weapons (dart, throwing axe, shuriken). Slings are mechanically regarded as "ranged" weapons (akin to bows, xbows) rather than thrown. Same bug means Brutal Throw will never work with slings either (STR to AB instead of DEX to AB- only applied to thrown weapons of which sling is not one).

Go figure :doh:
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Rudolph
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Rudolph » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:02 am

Unfortunately, the Warslinger class seems lacklustre in almost any combination. This is due to the fact that Ricochet shot cannot be used together with Manyshot, which is almost always the better choice to use. I have tried hard to come up with a build that would not be improved (except in RP) by replacing Warslinger and failed. Would love to learn differently.

Gurps
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Gurps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:11 pm

Many shot can be used with ricochet. Tested it.

Gurps
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Gurps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:12 pm

Gnomocracy wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:56 am
I'll chime in here as well.

I'd love to see some sneaks with slings be a bit more viable. What I'd love more is opening that class to other races and just calling it "Slinger" or "War Slinger". I was eyeing that PRC for a while when I was pondering on who to make my main gnome, alas it wasn't ment to be. Sling seems like the perfect weapon for the shorter races for that David vs Goliath feel, so I'd be entirely happy if it was expanded to include some other races.

I will say that I don't really know the lore behind it and if there's any loreful reasons on why it's a halfling-only class.
Then you might as well make AA or DD available to everyone. :P I think it's nice that halflings get their own class.

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electric mayhem
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by electric mayhem » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:39 pm

There's some good suggestions here.
I feel there should be an improvement made to this class. But yes, keep it to Halfling race only.


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Rudolph
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Rudolph » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:13 am

Many shot can be used with ricochet. Tested it.
That's great news, thanks. I went by the following Forum thread but am glad it's no longer up to date. https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=50639

Rudolph
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Rudolph » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:41 am

Since you are testing, Gurps, can you say anything about the 2-handed bonus for slings if wielded by halflings? Is this bonus actually applied or does it only appear in the character sheet (like it does with longbows)?

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chambordini
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by chambordini » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:16 pm

A few things, brutal throw is a custom feat, it doesn't work with slings but it could be made to, but that doesn't really give dex synergy to the slinger builds.
Good aim should apply to slings, according to the wiki, but that's a hardcoded feat.

The warsling sniper is far better in PnP than in BG, for sure, it has sneak dice that is not given in BG as per
http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/warsl ... index.html

3d6 sneak dice by the fifth level.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the prc is meant for halfling warslings, not the regular weapon. Which after some quick googling looks to be a superior weapon https://www.realmshelps.net/stores/weap ... 3_Halfling with x4 crit multiplier :P

Anyway just some info, I'd be fine with giving them the sneak attack. Increasing the crit multiplier of slings would be counterproductive to the dex-synergy focus that I think the prc needs.

Gurps
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Gurps » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:57 pm

Another suggestion I have is to make the ricochet ability allow the warslinger to bounce bullets back to themselves, essentially giving them infinite ammo with the selected ammo they choose. If that's a better suggestion I don't know.

Gurps
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Re: Halfling War Slinger

Unread post by Gurps » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 am

Having done some testing with ricochet it seems like a very fickle ability. Sometimes it decides to work and sometimes it works very well. I don't know what triggers it or not but recently I've experienced a bug where it spammed me with deactivation messages and now it won't tell me if it's on or off.

As well you do not get sneak attack off of Ricochet.

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