Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Any Issues or Bugs Should Be Posted in Their Respective Categories

Moderators: Moderator, Associate Dev, Quality Control, DM

Post Reply
User avatar
DiceyCZ
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:18 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:51 pm

Hello,
I have reported it before in the general thread but it never got much attention so I am creating a new topic.

When picking a familiar from the list provided by the "Imrpoved Familiar" list, the familiar's level only is 15, this applies to all the Improved Familiars provided for my character. However when I pick any of the original familiars their level is correctly 25 according to my class spread - 4 rogue / 6 wizard / 10 Eldritch Knight / 10 Arcane Trickster. This leads me to believe that for the improved familiars the Arcane Trickster doesn't count towards their level (6wiz+9Ek) because if it was the Eldritch Knight, familiar level would be 16 (6wiz+10AT)

Image
Image

Can someone please have a look at it? Thank you :)
Niyressa Dawncrow - Northern Wartch and Bladestone Foundation Administrator
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer

User avatar
Nemni
Scripter
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Nemni » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:17 am

Revision: 797
Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:50:09 AM
Message:
Familiars rebalanced. Now limited to 17 HD.
Ilbrandlin creature updated.
Planar Ally scaling limited.
Looks like it was intentional. I suppose a level 29 dragon was considered too much.

User avatar
DiceyCZ
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:18 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:01 am

I see had no idea it was intentional and I understand that statwise I suppose even though except for the higher dex/str the dragon has less BAB but...now that we can pick a spell for the familiar to use like ability and improved familiars don't get bonus abilities automatically like they used to, doesn't that ability suffer since there's 10 level dip as opposed to regular familiars? Those pictures are taken 5 minutes apart, if they are limited to 17 HD, why do old familiars have lvl 25? I might be wrong but isn't HD synonyme to level? Number of times you roll a hit die.
Niyressa Dawncrow - Northern Wartch and Bladestone Foundation Administrator
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer

User avatar
Nemni
Scripter
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Nemni » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:25 am

The old familiars scale up to level 29 but are quite weak by default. It does not take practiced spellcaster into account in the scaling which is why your bat is only level 25. The dragon still looks better even with a lower level though. Do you notice a lower duration on the familiar SLA due to the lower level?

User avatar
DiceyCZ
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:18 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:42 am

I'll test out durations and other effects based on CL, but if you look at the stats they are kinda on par, dragon has more AB, but bat has more attacks, dragon has more AC and HP but Bat has higher saves, their dmg is pretty much the same too 5 vs 4-7. So they are very similar power wise so the deciding factor would be the spell-like ability.
Niyressa Dawncrow - Northern Wartch and Bladestone Foundation Administrator
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer

User avatar
DiceyCZ
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:18 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:33 pm

Just tested it:

Bat - Greater Invisibility: 2m30s
Faerie Dragon - Greater Invisibility: 1m30s

That's whole 10 CL difference, meanwhile familiars can't even fight unless you control them and right click attack because their default action on enemy is "Examine"
Niyressa Dawncrow - Northern Wartch and Bladestone Foundation Administrator
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer

User avatar
Nemni
Scripter
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Nemni » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:53 pm

Familiars aren't really supposed to fight though. But I asked about the CL because I found it suspicious in the script. Thanks for testing! I'm sure it's fixable.

User avatar
DiceyCZ
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:18 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:52 pm

Thanks Nemni! :) And yeah I know they aren't I was meant to mention that's why I think it's more important to have level on par because of the CL should their stats get weakend as result or something.
Niyressa Dawncrow - Northern Wartch and Bladestone Foundation Administrator
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer

User avatar
Valefort
Lead Programmer
Posts: 8865
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: France, GMT +2

Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Valefort » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:54 pm

No idea why that was done, it'll be reverted, improved familiars will have the same HD as vanilla familiars.
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler

Post Reply