Storage Removed, what do we do?!

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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:27 pm

Writing it right after I read this: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68582

I am using the disguise system for a communal storage of items which allows me to easily swap them between characters, as well as storing rare items, but now it's gone! It was insanely convenient just for anything, what is going to come in place of it? Muling was mentioned in the announcement, but what about storing the items? Using mule characters and especially horses for it is a HUGE step back after the disguise system.
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Steve
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Steve » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Well, with the current AND future of the Storage System (NPC), storing rare items is a non-issue. There is still the Mule PC possibility as well (in combo with asking a friend to help with transfers).

Sharing items between Characters? A little dicey...since it is supposed to be that our PCs do not know each other, nor could interact/share gear, thus, it would probably be a good thing to have this clarified by the Staff.
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Wolfrayne
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Wolfrayne » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:31 pm

While is not against the rules it is up to players to do so of their own accord. They really don't have to provide us any means at all to do so. Personally i don't see how this makes much difference at all. You can still store all your items you just wont be able to change your name and pull whatever you want out on a whim.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Fury_US » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:33 pm

I am guessing that having storage tied to account name or to cd key isn't feasible? To be fair, if muling is still totally ok, I can't see why there would be an issue with a universal storage for an account or CD key- it's literally the same thing with just a lot more pain in the butt steps. That said, I don't personally know what goes into the coding of these sorts of things so I don't know if it was tried and caused more problems than it solved or not. In the end, as Wolfrayne said, it's a minor inconvenience at best, it's certainly not like when storage was locked down entirely.
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Maecius
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Maecius » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:14 pm

It's technically possible to tie a universal storage repository to a single account.

The devs and DMs ultimately did not want to do this, however, because it was felt that it would completely remove all in character legitimacy from the storage system -- which, at the end of the day, is intended to be an in character device, not an out of character convenience.

Muling is more tolerated than anything else here. It's not illegal, as noted, and never has been. No one will ever get in trouble for it, provided the server rules don't one day change. But the devs and DMs don't really want to encourage it either.

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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Fury_US » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:55 pm

First thing I want to point out here is that it genuinely doesn’t bother me either way- given the fact I almost never roll alts, storage has yet to become any kind of a real issue for me- so whatever is decided is fine, so long as a storage system of some kind remains in place.

Secondly, I want to state that- given this is a medium RP server- I am pro universal storage, rather than anti-mulling.

Essentially, that argument has “illogical” stamped all over it. As stated, this is a medium RP server. This is important to remember, given it was Dev and DM decision to support all playstyles here. Muling removes character legitimacy of “property ownership”, but is allowed, or rather “tolerated”, because everyone accepts it’s going to happen.

A simplified storage system that removes the necessity of other people or campfires is possible, and likely easily possible, but is refused for an idea of character legitimacy that does not, in fact, exist because of an allowed process that will remain “tolerated”.

It makes no sense that a system that can easily removed a large amount of unnecessary staff work load in the form of player complaints of loss of items via possible campfire theft, crash, outright theft, etc. is rejected entirely because of an RP concept that simply isn’t there. Those players who are here to RP will come up with their own reasons for their character to obtain said item, and those players who are here to simply enjoy the game content (with the full support of BGTSCC because of an open policy to support multiple playstyles) do not give two craps about “character legitimacy”, and frankly never will.

If the DMs and Devs want to encourage character legitimacy, why not choose a more logical avenue to go down, instead of creating more work for themselves that takes them *away* from activities that foster character development? I would think character legitimacy would be better fostered by DMs with more time to focus storylines and events.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Nemni » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:54 pm

Fury_US wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:55 pm
It makes no sense that a system that can easily removed a large amount of unnecessary staff work load in the form of player complaints of loss of items via possible campfire theft, crash, outright theft, etc. is rejected entirely because of an RP concept that simply isn’t there.
That's essentially my opinion too. If muling was forbidden it would make perfect sense to make it as difficult as possible. But since it's not forbidden there's no reason why it shouldn't be convenient and safe. It would be better as account wide storage to save everyone time.

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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Valefort » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:47 pm

It's not illogical but merely inconsistent and reflects the differing opinions on the matter, also there's no saying that muling will forever be tolerated, it could be curbed a lot.

Look at it that way : with this situation no one is happy but everyone makes do. On the other hand with either full OOC convenience or full IC legitimacy (not to mention longer leveling time and slower power gain, big pluses) a bunch of people would be really annoyed. Now which option do you prefer ? And that's why we have an uncomfortable middle ground like this.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by electric mayhem » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:31 pm

Fury_US wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:55 pm


A simplified storage system that removes the necessity of other people or campfires is possible, and likely easily possible, but is refused for an idea of character legitimacy that does not, in fact, exist because of an allowed process that will remain “tolerated”.

It makes no sense that a system that can easily removed a large amount of unnecessary staff work load in the form of player complaints of loss of items via possible campfire theft, crash, outright theft, etc. is rejected entirely because of an RP concept that simply isn’t there. Those players who are here to RP will come up with their own reasons for their character to obtain said item, and those players who are here to simply enjoy the game content (with the full support of BGTSCC because of an open policy to support multiple playstyles) do not give two craps about “character legitimacy”, and frankly never will.

If the DMs and Devs want to encourage character legitimacy, why not choose a more logical avenue to go down, instead of creating more work for themselves that takes them *away* from activities that foster character development? I would think character legitimacy would be better fostered by DMs with more time to focus storylines and events.
Completely 100% agree with everything Fury wrote, and highlighted these last three paragraphs for effect.

Let's not fool ourselves people. ITS A GAME. That caters to many playstyles.

People are beginning to find more reasons every day why they should stop investing their RL time in this game. Let's not add one more to the list.
I'd hypothesise that putting greater restriction on the storage system WILL NOT increase the quality of character roleplay. You'll likely find camp fires littering the cityscape.
Either keep the disguise name muling system as is, or implement an account wide storage.


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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Fury_US » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:38 pm

But that argument just simply doesn’t hold water. Having an item storage available is, and always has been a player perk, not a character device- Because come on, we’re going up to most merchants and saying “here, hold my crap”. There are very, very few things about that which I find to be of an IC nature at all. Storage is one of a few OOC conveniences which need to be offered in order to keep the player base happy, and returning to this server instead of saying screw it, and wandering off to play For Honor.

Continuing to maintain the status quo is NOT finding a middle ground to keep everyone “marginally” happy- it’s just a device in place to make more unnecessary work for both players and staff. Either muling needs to be disallowed, if the Devs and Staff agree that exchange of items between one player’s characters is to be discouraged (this will not halt that happening, of course); or just offer a universal storage as a player perk if muling is going to remain an allowed process, so time is not wasted on all of the various issues that come up with the current process.

Insisting things remain as they are isn’t a compromise to keep everyone happy, in this case. It’s just belligerently Luddite, IMO.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Grendunor » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:48 pm

Valefort wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:47 pm
It's not illogical but merely inconsistent and reflects the differing opinions on the matter, also there's no saying that muling will forever be tolerated, it could be curbed a lot.

Look at it that way : with this situation no one is happy but everyone makes do. On the other hand with either full OOC convenience or full IC legitimacy (not to mention longer leveling time and slower power gain, big pluses) a bunch of people would be really annoyed. Now which option do you prefer ? And that's why we have an uncomfortable middle ground like this.
So the difference between illogical and inconsistent here is fairly moot. The difference of opinions on the matter is also a massive moot point as the only point that matters is the currently supported ideology of admins that reads: "Muling is more tolerated than anything else here. It's not illegal, as noted, and never has been. No one will ever get in trouble for it...". And given that universal storage is within the realms of possibility (We had a workaround already) There is no reason other than development time to deny the request.

Given that you are the lead scripter you could simply say No i don't want to work on this as I disagree with the design philosophy behind it and won't spend my volunteered time developing it. That's an entirely fair choice and at the risk of assuming someone's motivations a more direct way to convey your point.

As fury wrote BGTSCC is a Medium RP server, the universal storage system can only compromise your character integrity if you use it and decide it breaks your immersion the choice is also free for you to ot use it that way or never mule your items between characters this way.
However, denying the majority the opportunity to because an individual or minority disagree with it seems like an entirely backwards approach to ensuring people have fun in their hobby.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Fury_US » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:13 pm

Nemni wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:54 pm
That's essentially my opinion too. If muling was forbidden it would make perfect sense to make it as difficult as possible. But since it's not forbidden there's no reason why it shouldn't be convenient and safe. It would be better as account wide storage to save everyone time.
This is a big thing, right here. Admins have stated that there is no intention of making Muling illegal, so... why insist on a procedure that eats up player and DM time, when the problem can be essentially solved and resources freed up with what I am willing to bet good money on comes down to maybe five minutes of time and one string of code in the right scripter’s hands.

If, as you say, Valefort- nobody is happy with the current situation but is making do, why not take a server wide poll to find out what the general consensus is on what will make the majority of players happy? Majority preference certainly played a part in whether the speech dots remained or not, after all. A small percentage of annoyed people along with a greater number of genuinely greatful people beats the hell out of nobody being happy, I would think.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by VDub » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:43 pm

If you make it for the player account and not just the character, make a flag fly when they are inactive for 3 months or so. Then we can all get together and bid in the storage. It'll be a BG:TSCC storage wars!!! Blind bidding on someones shizz!

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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Wolfrayne » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:52 pm

Honestly i dont care either way, But if you are going to have a player storage system that is universal why not place it in the nexus and be done with it then? I personally dont use the system for muling now as it is. The only character i have that even uses the system is my merchant character and i could just as easily store things on the horse.
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Re: Storage Removed, what do we do?!

Unread post by Ithilan » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:14 pm

Wolfrayne wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:52 pm
Honestly i dont care either way, But if you are going to have a player storage system that is universal why not place it in the nexus and be done with it then? I personally dont use the system for muling now as it is. The only character i have that even uses the system is my merchant character and i could just as easily store things on the horse.
This. But then again I dont care either and only use the storage for all kinds of outfits that overwise fill up my inventory. I think it is a minor inconvenience for the people that do disguise muling, but its a minor thing really. If you really need to tranfer items to X character, I find that 99% of the players here are willing to help if they have time. And it cant be so frequent occurrences that this should effect the general gameplay.
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