Augment Form

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Ewe
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Augment Form

Unread post by Ewe » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:34 am

Hi, Augment Form states that it will give you medium bab up to your character's HD. What it appears to actually do is set each of your individual classes to medium bab unless they are already high bab. This means for example, that a 9HD character with the right class spread could have 5 bab instead of 6 bab. I don't think this is in the spirit of the feat's description, or the description should be changed to reflect this.

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Nemni
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Nemni » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:30 pm

Basically it only works for low bab arcane classes. It's normal that combining medium classes with each other can result in lower than medium bab. But if you wanna clarify it you can always write it on the wiki ;)

Ewe
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Ewe » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:28 am

Just to be clear, my PC was

Cleric 1, Wizard 5, Thaum 3.

This totals to 9 character level, with 3 BAB.

I get 5 BAB with Augment Form, when I was expecting 6. Since a level 9 character with all medium bab should have 6 BAB, at least that's how I interpret the feat as it is written, but that is not how it actually works... Instead it converts each of my classes to medium bab and then totals them which is not the same thing as raising your character's bab to medium of your character level unless already higher.

I will put some notes on the wiki when I get a chance.

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Tsidkenu
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Tsidkenu » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:23 am

Probably not counting the divine class since it does not qualify for the feat (and it adds 0 BAB to this example in either case). This leaves 5 wiz (2 BAB) and 3 thaum (1 BAB) to be 'upgraded' to Medium BAB, resulting in the following:

Cleric 1 (0 BAB) + Wizard 5 (3 BAB) + Thaum 3 (2 BAB) = 5 BAB.

Seems to be working exactly as it is meant to. BAB fractions (low is 0.5 BAB/lvl; Med 0.75/lvl; High 1.0/lvl) are not cumulative across all classes; fractions are always rounded down to the nearest whole number before respective class BABs are combined to form your whole character BAB. It is one of the potential disadvantages of multiclassing.

For example, a cler 1/rg 1/brd 1 is level 3 with a BAB of 0 (all the 0.75 BAB fractions are rounded down to zero rather than added). A lvl 3 cleric or rogue or bard by comparison has a BAB of 2.
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Ewe
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Ewe » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:05 am

I already posted how it actually works. The thing is, that is not what the feat description says it does. It says it makes your bab medium to your character level unless it is already higher. Not that it raises only low bab class levels to their medium equivalent. Those are completely different descriptions.

@Tsidkenu It's really frustrating that you would post something like that when I have already posted twice how it functions in the way you described. It seems like you didn't even read my points. I already know that it behaves in the way you wrote, I'm simply saying this does not match the feat's actual description. You're treating me as if I don't understand the fundamentals of bab cross classing... I feel like you’re belittling me as if I don’t know dnd basics :(
Last edited by Ewe on Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:17 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Steve
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Steve » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:17 am

Many already knew it was like this. It had been discussed rather in-depth when Augment Form was introduced along with a very expanded Polymorphing System.

The pity is yes, it wasn't written very well in the description originally, nor was ever updated to reflect that each low BAB class/PrC is upgraded to Medium BAB, then added together, NOT add all low BAB Levels, convert to Medium BAB.
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Ewe
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Ewe » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:27 am

Let me put it another way, if the feat description is your requirement the implementation does not meet it. As a newcomer with a lot of pnp experience I can say this description would easily cause the same confusion to any other new player.

Ewe
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Re: Augment Form

Unread post by Ewe » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:53 am

The character becomes skilled with spells and abilities that allow him to assume another form. For the duration, the character’s base attack bonus becomes medium (unless its already higher) but cannot exceed the character’s HD. As example, a 10 Wizard 10 Eldritch Knight will have 17 BAB.
First of all the description itself as issues. It says your bab becomes medium unless already higher. A 10 wiz/10 EK already has 15 BAB, which is the same as a 20th level character with medium bab. So what happens by the description is you get 17 BAB which is higher than a medium bab character of 20th level.

Second it says nothing about just treating low bab classes as medium bab classes. It reads as if your will gain medium bab equal to your level unless it is already higher.

Basically, this description is very awkward.

I added this note on the wiki:
Contrary the feat description your base attack bonus does not become medium for your level. Nor does it matter if your new BAB would become greater than medium BAB of a character of your level. Instead, this feat actually just treats your low BAB classes as if they were medium BAB classes for the purposes of calculating your new BAB while shape shifted.
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Polymorphing

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