Druids Conjuring Shadows

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Ewe
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Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Ewe » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:47 pm

Suggestion: Remove Conjure Shadows from Druid's spell list.

Reason: I'm not a lore expert, but my thought was Druids don't and shouldn't support summoning undead creatures and the spell description seems to suggest it should only be given to sorc/wiz or clerics with darkness domain.
Caster Level(s): Sor / Wiz 3, Darkness 3
Innate Level: 3
School: Conjuration [Evil]
Casting Time: 3 castings
Component(s): Verbal, Somatic
Range: Personal
Area of Effect / Target: 10 feet forward
Duration: 1 round / level, 20 rounds max
Save: No
Spell Resistance: No

You summon 1d3 Shadows. Each Shadow has 6 HD and can be further improved by taking conjuration feats. This spell is common among priests with the darkness domain. Darkness domain priests always conjure the maximum amount of shadows. Unknown to all except those who have visited a Temple of Shar, this spell is used by her clergy to ritually call forth shadows to settle disputes or determine who enjoys divine favor. Usually the clergy of the nightsinger simply ask two contesting parties to stand next to the caster and then determine the victor by seeing at who's side the first of the shadows appears. The side the first shadow appears on normally being random.

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Tekill
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Tekill » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:06 pm

Shadow Druid.
Nuff' said.

But I will say more. I think druids have evolved a bit since the days of' yore when they were supposed to be all: "gross zombies, that's like totally unnatural."
This was back when it was still cool to be vegan's, you know back when druids were the first to do it.

But times have changed. I for example have a Druid of Grumbar. Now Grumbar as a deity does not give a crap about us followers. I am paraphrasing a bit but- He is very ambivalent about anything not earth related, such as many of his worshippers. I may be god moding a bit but I see Grumbar not really caring about the use of necromancy as long as it does not affect the earth. I would say he would want the dead to return to the earth when they die to replenish the earth...so bodies go in the ground. But I do not think he would care too much about where the souls go...or shadows.

The type of God will play a factor to a druids attitude and the type of druid your are RPing.
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Ravial
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Ravial » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:35 am

They didn't really evolve. Druids are sworn to oppose undeath and abberrations, since both are unnatural to the cycle of nature or life and death.

Moreso, "Shadow Druids" aren't druids that use shadows, undead and shadow magic or something. Shadow Druids is just a name for an extremely hostile group of druids that wants to destroy civilisation and let nature rule all lands back again. They don't use undead.
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by LISA100595 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:03 am

Ravial wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:35 am
They didn't really evolve. Druids are sworn to oppose undeath and abberrations, since both are unnatural to the cycle of nature or life and death.

Moreso, "Shadow Druids" aren't druids that use shadows, undead and shadow magic or something. Shadow Druids is just a name for an extremely hostile group of druids that wants to destroy civilisation and let nature rule all lands back again. They don't use undead.
This ^^ +1
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Tekill
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Tekill » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:52 pm

Ravial wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:35 am
Druids are sworn to oppose undeath and abberrations, since both are unnatural to the cycle of nature or life and death.
I was making a bad pun re shadow druids.
Yes over the many editions of D&D they have evolved and expanded quite a bit.
Can I have a citation re your quoted statement Something from 3.5 edition if you could?
I'm trying to call you out and I don't disbelive you...I've just seen other discussions about this.
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Ravial » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:02 pm

Player's Handbook 3.5 wrote:Adventures: Druids adventure to gain knowledge (especially about animals and plants unfamiliar to them) and power. Sometimes, their superiors call on their services. Druids may also bring their power to bear against those who threaten what they love, which more often includes ancient stands of trees or trackless mountains than people. While druids accept that which is horrific or cruel in nature, they hate that which is unnatural, including aberrations (such as beholders and carrion crawlers) and undead (such as zombies and vampires). Druids sometimes lead raids against such creatures, especially when they encroach on the druids’ territory.
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Tekill
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Tekill » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 pm

Yep. Even says so on the nwn2 wiki. How did I miss it?!
Yeee-eesh! Carrion crawlers too! Well I've killed a zillion of them so at least I was playing it right with them.....
But now I have to untake the spell vamp feast.... :o
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Tekill » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:48 am

I created a thread on a smimilar topic in the past (I knew I wasnt crazy). viewtopic.php?f=64&t=66854

I think the synopsis of that thread was that there is a general consensus that druids are foes of undead. But there are examples such as NPC's undead/lich druids and possibly a prc or feat where druids wildshape into undead animals. So its rare but they do mix- maybe in an exception that proves the rule sort of way.

I think in hindsight though it is a bit snow flakey to mix druids and undead. Nature and undeath, being like oil and water.

I guess to answer this thread, the undead spell(s) available to druids are mechanically available if you want to RP a druid that is the exception to the rule, where the rule exists but it is not carved into stone.

Say if you wanted to try and roll a Blighter type druid..maybe?
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metaquad4
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by metaquad4 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:50 am

In the source, there is also an undead druid NPC who is Forgotten Realms specific, too. Also, you can have druids who utilize undead or become undead via multiclassing, even in NWN2. To top it off, in source, there is the Blighter class which is a druid specific class that uses undead (though, the undead FR druid NPC doesn't even have that!).

Looks like
Adventures: Druids adventure to gain knowledge (especially about animals and plants unfamiliar to them) and power. Sometimes, their superiors call on their services. Druids may also bring their power to bear against those who threaten what they love, which more often includes ancient stands of trees or trackless mountains than people. While druids accept that which is horrific or cruel in nature, they hate that which is unnatural, including aberrations (such as beholders and carrion crawlers) and undead (such as zombies and vampires). Druids sometimes lead raids against such creatures, especially when they encroach on the druids’ territory.
is just a generalistic statement/guideline and not a rule.
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Ewe » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:24 am

Hey guys, regardless.. the spell description does not include druid in it. Whether or not druids would actually raise the dead, I think it was just a mistake that they got this spell.

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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by metaquad4 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:26 pm

Ewe wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:24 am
Hey guys, regardless.. the spell description does not include druid in it. Whether or not druids would actually raise the dead, I think it was just a mistake that they got this spell.
True. Though, some spell descriptions are also wrong. Ultimately, just like everything else, it is up to the staff. Right now, it is a "yes". The future might be different.

Though it has been used in RP already, so it would likely need to be explained away why druids can't do it anymore suddenly. Slight issue.
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Ewe » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:12 am

I think it should be pretty simple to explain why druids shouldn't be casting arcane spells?

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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by metaquad4 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 pm

A) Not an arcane only spell.
B) Druids can cast it on the server. That means that right now, it is a druid spell. If the staff says otherwise that is fine, but as it has already been used historically in RP, an in-character explanation would need to be introduced as suddenly all the druids who could cast it now can't.
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Re: Druids Conjuring Shadows

Unread post by Ewe » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:46 pm

Alright, but if it was just a typo and druids truly don't summon undead per lore, then it should just be a retcon. Otherwise, there'd need to be IC explanations for every change ever made. For example, drow suddenly being thinner due to human skeletons being applied - when there's clearly no IC explanation given. Or the Good domain no longer being able to cast holy aura and now instead aura versus alignment, no explanation was given there, list can go on for days.

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