Racial Imbalances

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PaulImposteur
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Racial Imbalances

Unread post by PaulImposteur » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:00 pm

I've been comparing a lot of races ECL and not, and some of the ECL options make no sense, concerning them being ECL.

Water Genasi is essentially a worse version of shield dwarf (Way worse) It's spell like ability being relatively useless while the Dwarf is non-ECL and has tons of bonuses to hitting things plus saves to magic.

Most of the Genasi in fact seem to be awkwardly awful. They each have -2 to certain stats while for the same ECL you can be an Aasimar with 2 +2 stats and no negative stats. Aasimar almost feels like it should be a higher ECL.

Svifneblin makes complete sense as a ECL 3, it gets a bunch of really crazy stuff, Drow is arguably very good.

Mainly Genasi seem to be out of whack, regarding how their stat allocation and powers work. Would it be possible to look at the races mathematically and rethink if they should be ECL, or consider perhaps giving them a small bonus to contribute with making them not trap-choices, because someone may want to RP one?

I understand you don't need to be mechanically viable to RP a one of these characters. But Genasi seem punished for having flavor.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by Planehopper » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:09 pm

Though not the intent of ECL adjustments, I think they are useful in keeping some races to a more 'natural' level. Genasi, in particular, are probably kept more rare because of the ECL - which to me is an unintentional benefit.
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PaulImposteur
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by PaulImposteur » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:16 pm

Currently it encourages taking Aasimar, and ignoring the other races in my opinion. You can tell by the number of Aasimar across the server.

I personally don't see an issue with more of a 'rare' race. We're adventurers.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by chambordini » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:56 pm

Yeah I'd be okay with raising aasimar to 2 ecl, for population control and balance, the race is too good.

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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:36 pm

I'd also suggest setting Strongheart hins to +1 ecl (while keeping Lightfoot as they are), stronghearts are already a top tier race and nobody plays lighfoots (especially since they have the same appearances anyway).

As for aasimars, I agree setting them to +2 ecl or even +3 (why not, really?). It's completely fair both mechanically wise (aasimars get insane combination of bonuses with absolutely no stat penalties) and even more so RP wise. I'd even like to stop for a while at RP PoV, because, according to lore (pre-ToT), aasimars are extremely rare even at Mulhorand and Unther, and meeting one at the Coast is close to impossible. And now look at the fresh server stats. 11% aasimars, ELEVEN, it's the second most popular race after humans. DMs justify so many things by "the lore is in the first place" argument, well then, what about this absolutely unexplained colossal influx of aasimars who shouldn't be here at all? Why not add yuan-ti purebloods as well, even they should be slightly more common than aasimars. Oh, and also I'd add that I met maybe 1 or 2 players who did actually roleplay aasimars as aasimars — humans tainted with celestial blood. Most of the aasimar players I met play their aasimars as usual humans, literally (to my shame, I wasn't an exception).

Alright, rant mode off, I really vote for making aasimars a +3 ecl race.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by Tsidkenu » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:04 pm

Ideally, if staff wished to 'control' the population of 'rare' races, these should have been application only from the server's beginning. It's too late to go back now, I feel, and we just have to deal with the fact that there simply are a lot of aasimar & tieflings contrary to 'canon' (which is fine, by the way, as all custom campaign settings ought to be able to diverge from 'canon' and this is one area our server does exactly that).

But yes, aasimar should be +2 ECL (all bonuses no downsides, whut?)
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by izzul » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:23 am

Drow : +2 dex, +2 int, +2 cha, -2 con SR41 (dex to HIPS, int to skills/wiz/top tier gish, cha to RP personality, top tier class)- no doubt a superior race

Svirf : +2 dex, +2 wisdom, SR41(dex to HIPS, wis to divine) - does not really have a place to RP either UD or surface.

tiefling : +2 dex, +2 int, -2 cha (better than drow if you want to dump stat charisma, getting int and dex without con penalty) - reason why people choose tiefling and never RP that 6 charisma.

Aasimar : +2 wisdom, +2 cha ( wis to divine, cha to personality) - honestly i dont think wis and cha can outrun the power of int/dex from drow and tiefling.


From my personal point of view, mechanically i think that Aasimar is not better than those 3 races above.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by Nemni » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:19 am

Players are not NPCs and don't need to follow their population distributions. Baldur's gate is always filled with humans regardless of what PCs might play. I think anyone who is bothered by certain races and classes should be the change they wish to see, and roll up standard humans as their "main" chars. Considering how often this complaint is made, that should then become a significant part of the PC population right? :)

Gensai could use a little love, perhaps more usages of their special ability per day.

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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by AlwaysSummer Day » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:48 pm

I'd love to see air, water, and fire genasi get some sort of buff rather than a drop in ecl. Earth genasi are alright but all four races have worthless spell like abilities.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by chambordini » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:03 pm

Nemni wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:19 am
Players are not NPCs and don't need to follow their population distributions. Baldur's gate is always filled with humans regardless of what PCs might play. I think anyone who is bothered by certain races and classes should be the change they wish to see, and roll up standard humans as their "main" chars. Considering how often this complaint is made, that should then become a significant part of the PC population right? :)

Gensai could use a little love, perhaps more usages of their special ability per day.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by mrm3ntalist » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:47 am

chambordini wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:56 pm
Yeah I'd be okay with raising aasimar to 2 ecl, for population control and balance, the race is too good.
There is nothing wrong with the "population distribution" (sic), nor the ECL +X is going to do anything, the way max levels and ECL are implemented. Ineffective solutions for non existing problems.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by Tsidkenu » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:01 am

So we gunna go Sigil and cap their level to 30 minus ECL?
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by izzul » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:06 am

Tsidkenu wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:01 am
So we gunna go Sigil and cap their level to 30 minus ECL?
Drow will end up with lvl 28, so does svirf

Tiefling, Aasimar, Tanarruk, Genasi, Grey Orc will end up with lvl 29

only humans and other basic races will end up with lvl 30 and capable to handle the 30CL greater dispel.

mrm3ntalist wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:47 am
chambordini wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:56 pm
Yeah I'd be okay with raising aasimar to 2 ecl, for population control and balance, the race is too good.
There is nothing wrong with the "population distribution" (sic), nor the ECL +X is going to do anything, the way max levels and ECL are implemented. Ineffective solutions for non existing problems.
i belive what M3ntalist say is on point.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by PaulImposteur » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:28 am

My main point was more of a rebalance for Genasi. Be it lowering ECL or giving them some sort of small buff, to compensate for their ECL. They need some kind of love. Earth Genasi seem good as is, with how their stats are laid out, providing a clear advantage to specific classes, or their stats compliment most classes.
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Re: Racial Imbalances

Unread post by ARHicks00 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:58 pm

PaulImposteur wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:16 pm
Currently it encourages taking Aasimar, and ignoring the other races in my opinion. You can tell by the number of Aasimar across the server.

I personally don't see an issue with more of a 'rare' race. We're adventurers.
I had a similar argument regarding Half Orc as most races got more benefits. In fact the players and DM in another server recognize the imbalance. For example, the Half Orc is less intimidating than a fragile Elf due to the -2 to Charisma and less beefy than a dwarf. Most depictions of Half Orc are huge muscular humaniod pig like beings, yet their attributes bonus don't reflect this.

Orc also have shamans, Warlock, and sorcerers amongst them that require heavy Charisma (ex. Sharptooth Orcs), yet wouldn't penalties makes it hard for them to conjure up a spell, much less qualify for such a class.

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