Cleric Implosion

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Moridin
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Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Moridin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:42 pm

Implosion
Evocation
Level: Clr 9, Destruction 9
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One corporeal creature/round
Duration: Concentration (up to 4 rounds)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a destructive resonance in a corporeal creature’s body. For each round you concentrate, you cause one creature to collapse in on itself, killing it. (This effect, being instantaneous, cannot be dispelled.)

You can target a particular creature only once with each casting of the spell.

Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures.
So that above is the pnp statblock for the spell implosion. Now, the way implosion works ingame is this:

It essentially works as a regular death spell, rather than one of destruction like an earthquake. This means that death ward can make it completely useless, and so it never gets used especially considering that implosion also harms friend and foe alike, including the caster(it seems the caster can't be targeted anymore, making implosion immune items useless). On top of all of this, as in pnp, it is a fortitude negates roll. I think something needs to be done to make this spell viable. From my viewpoint in the way it currently is, it has no purpose.

So I have some suggestions(I'm open to conversation):
1) Keep it as a death effect, but give it it's pnp duration to make it a decent spell to have in pve, which also would be good for battlefield tactics
2) Make it able to bypass death ward while keeping it on the instant one roll(not a death effect since it actually rips people apart rather than induces death)
3) If possible, somehow make the fortitude a little easier to beat the spell and make it into the pnp spell?

Edit **I accidentally had bypass in place of "beat the spell" in suggestion 3.
Last edited by Moridin on Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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professiondude
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by professiondude » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:02 pm

It's about time someone mentioned this broken spell :clap: :dance:
Fix it por favor!
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Young Werther
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Young Werther » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:32 pm

Not the same as NWN1 where it goes through death ward yeah. But death ward can be breached now and the native +3 to DC the spell on on level 9 spell means you can stack the DC pretty high. You can kill packs of fire giants with it if you get them bunched up on an ally with death ward. If any buff I'd say make the radius of effect bigger so it can effect more creatures and not require super precision. Anyway it's a nice spell against the frost giant king as is.
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Lockonnow » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:52 am

yes i have use that spell a loot so it is my fault they will change but who cares any way

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Grendunor
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Grendunor » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:47 am

The spell is better off not bypassing death immunities, and functions like a cleric version of mass drown except with fall over dead over 90% current hp. DC wise as a 9th level spell you can cook up a spicy meatball with the right build.

PvE I've not tried DC casters yet but seems like a reasonable build option especially for enchantments.

Anyway got distracted in terms of PVE you will want it not to bypass death immune so you don't murder your party

Pvp if you have a spell whos counter play is spam mantle wands and pray (All of them) people will QQ

I suppose the frequent use of deathward does make this a bit of a stinker in cleric PVP but really that comes down to knowing your spreadsheet, and your opponents better than they do.

I like the lingering zone suggestion we could give it a really nice obvious vfx so people understand red = dead
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Lockonnow
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Lockonnow » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:30 am

you can get a item that is immunity spell to Implosion but you cant get a item for many others deat hspell from wizard or hold mass monster so what is the big deal?

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Moridin
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Moridin » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:36 am

Lockonnow, what do you mean you can't get specific spell immunities from items? That is a thing in the game. What you can't get immunities to is ground fired aoe. And by itself it isn't a big deal, but putting everything together kind of leads to a bad spell.
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Young Werther
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Young Werther » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:18 am

Grendunor wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:47 am
I like the lingering zone suggestion we could give it a really nice obvious vfx so people understand red = dead
If you read the PnP description posted the spell isn't an AoE in that instance.
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One corporeal creature/round
And in that PnP spell you can only kill a total of 4 creatures. The AoE can kill more than that but it's hard to target the spell with the small radius. I wouldn't mind the four creatures version where you pick them off one by one as it could be useful in certain situations but instantly killing a stack of creatures in 1 round always feels nice.

What would be a cool change cool is if you could kill undead with it. I'm all for that. 8-)
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Lockonnow
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Lockonnow » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:21 am

Young Werther it is a death spell so it cant kill undead but i will like that to so i could kill the nightwalker with it and anything eles tha tis a undead

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Kaeldre
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Kaeldre » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:54 am

I think implosion sits okay as it is. The added +3 to its DC is a very strong bonus already. I would not add any duration to the spell, since that would allow it to bypass saving throws vs spells. Which would make it imbalanced.

I would, however, support the decision to remove the death effect allowing it to bypass death ward. This is more of a thematic change in my mind, since death ward is supposed to protect against death spells. Implosion is simply not a death spell.
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Endelyon
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Endelyon » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:27 pm

It's hard for me to get behind the idea of changing or improving this spell in any way as long as it's getting an arbitrary and unexplained +3 DC. If we removed that, on the other hand, perhaps then I could see a case for allowing it to work on death-immune foes.

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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Kaeldre » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:21 pm

Endelyon wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:27 pm
It's hard for me to get behind the idea of changing or improving this spell in any way as long as it's getting an arbitrary and unexplained +3 DC. If we removed that, on the other hand, perhaps then I could see a case for allowing it to work on death-immune foes.
On second thought, I think you're right. It could tip DC clerics over the edge. I'll stand by my first statement.
Kaeldre wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:54 am
I think implosion sits okay as it is.
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Re: Cleric Implosion

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:54 am

I once had a DC cleric, with a ring that provided Immunity to Implosion. The immunity worked just fine for me, hence I could cast the spell right at my character's feet. The small round AoE is a bit bit hard to use otherwise.

Clerics have no trouble tanking things while casting spells and the current version works just fine.

Now remove Death Ward immunity and Clerics will just Implode themselves.

Remove AoE and it just becomes PvP OR PvB spell.

Add ability to hit multiple targets and it will require custom feats like current shapeshifting, or a new user interface of its own.

With or without +3 to DC, I do not see these suggestions improving the current spell.

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