Confused concerning Hunter Ranger feat progression

[blacksoft]

Let's say I am level 2 ranger and chose TWF progression and then pick up Hunter Ranger before level 3, what happens with Ranger feat progression?

Vanilla Ranger:

3 - toughness
4 - animal companion
5 - 2nd FE
6 - ITWF
7 - woodland stride
8 - swift tracker
9 - evasion
10 - 2nd FE
11 - GTWF
13 - Camouflage

Hunter Ranger:

1 - trapping
2 - fast movement
3 - uncanny dodge
4 - extra FE I
5 - rapid shot
7 - swift tracker
9 - extra FE II
10 - manyshot

11 - 21 Wiki does not explain what happens after level 10 for Hunter rangers in terms of provided feats.

What vanilla ranger feats get superimposed onto Hunter?

So that:
-character Ranger level 3 would get toughness and Hunter Ranger level 2 gets fast movement?
-character Ranger level 4 gets animal companion progression and Hunter ranger level 3 uncanny dodge?
-character Ranger level 5 gets 2nd FE and hunter ranger level 4 gets another FE (in effect doubling FEs?)
-character Ranger level 6 gets ITWF and hunter ranger level 5 gets rapid shot?
-character Ranger level 7 and hunter ranger 7 both get swift tracker?? (so does this tell me that Vanilla ranger feats are not superimposed? So it loses more than just Ranger spellcasting)
etc....
Do Hunter rangers have ability to get Bane of enemies?

Please help me understand what is happening.

thanks.

[izzul]

as i recall, you get both Ranger + hunter progression benefits. you only lose spellcasting. please correct me if im wrong

[chad878262]

Hunter progression is in addition to vanilla Ranger. So you can go for TWF combat style while also getting some of the Archery combat style feats as well. And yes, you do get two additional FE's more than vanilla Ranger, so if going 'pure' Hunter Ranger 30 you would have 9 FE's instead of 7.

[blacksoft]

Hunter progression is in addition to vanilla Ranger. So you can go for TWF combat style while also getting some of the Archery combat style feats as well. And yes, you do get two additional FE's more than vanilla Ranger, so if going 'pure' Hunter Ranger 30 you would have 9 FE's instead of 7.

So really, it sounds like a 13 splashed Ranger should actually go hunter, since the spells are marginal at that spell casting level. Ranger 13 / assassin...

[chad878262]

Hunter progression is in addition to vanilla Ranger. So you can go for TWF combat style while also getting some of the Archery combat style feats as well. And yes, you do get two additional FE's more than vanilla Ranger, so if going 'pure' Hunter Ranger 30 you would have 9 FE's instead of 7.

So really, it sounds like a 13 splashed Ranger should actually go hunter, since the spells are marginal at that spell casting level. Ranger 13 / assassin...

Well, it really depends. See, for me Ranger 13 still has some interesting things it can do with spells.
1. Free Blindfight on demand.
2. +5 NA AC freeing up an item slot
3. If you take PSC you'll have CL17 meaning you free a 2nd item slot by using Halo of Sand
4. Some pretty decent other situational wards that can be beneficial (Camouflage, Hawkeye, Blades of Fury, etc.)

However, if it were me then yes I would absolutely pick Hunter if I was going for fewer than 21 levels of Ranger. Level 21+ would be something I would really think about up until R26 + where the spells are just too good and undispellable (outside mords/breach). R21/A9 w/ PSC still has CL25 Ranger so it's kind of a toss up where you have to determine if the +2 FE's, free bow feats and mediocre traps are worth the loss of spell utility. Personally I really like the Ranger spell list so would be hard pressed to give it up with 21 or more levels, but at 13....I suppose it would probably depend on my mood when I built it. Getting dispelled is a royal PITA, but with HiPS to defend against it isn't the end of the world. To be honest though I'm not sure what you would do with those last 8 levels going R13/A9... Is there anything you can grab that is better than R21? I suppose you could go Arcane Archer, but then you would want Archery style anyway (Hunter does not give Improved Rapid Shot which will require you to take Point Blank Shot to qualify for) and are thus better off going either R14/A9/AA7 or R13/A9/AA8. The nature of AA means you don't need TWF feats, but I suppose could still go Hunter for the extra +2 damage/spot/etc. against 2 additional enemy types (+5 > +3 after all). I would say though that the Ranger spells even at CL 13/14 or 17/18 are still really beneficial to have and thus warrant consideration.

To some extent I think we all as players sometimes put far too much weight on dispels. Assassin is the most popular PRC and it'd be interesting to note how many of those players utilize the Assassin buffs. I know on my Assassin I use them all the time. Yes, they occasionally get dispelled, but you have multiple casts...just reapply them if you fail to doge (hips) to avoid the dispel. *shrug* To each their own mate, if you feel Hunter is the better choice then that is the route you should take!

[blacksoft]

Hunter progression is in addition to vanilla Ranger. So you can go for TWF combat style while also getting some of the Archery combat style feats as well. And yes, you do get two additional FE's more than vanilla Ranger, so if going 'pure' Hunter Ranger 30 you would have 9 FE's instead of 7.

So really, it sounds like a 13 splashed Ranger should actually go hunter, since the spells are marginal at that spell casting level. Ranger 13 / assassin...

Well, it really depends. See, for me Ranger 13 still has some interesting things it can do with spells.
1. Free Blindfight on demand.
2. +5 NA AC freeing up an item slot
3. If you take PSC you'll have CL17 meaning you free a 2nd item slot by using Halo of Sand
4. Some pretty decent other situational wards that can be beneficial (Camouflage, Hawkeye, Blades of Fury, etc.)

However, if it were me then yes I would absolutely pick Hunter if I was going for fewer than 21 levels of Ranger. Level 21+ would be something I would really think about up until R26 + where the spells are just too good and undispellable (outside mords/breach). R21/A9 w/ PSC still has CL25 Ranger so it's kind of a toss up where you have to determine if the +2 FE's, free bow feats and mediocre traps are worth the loss of spell utility. Personally I really like the Ranger spell list so would be hard pressed to give it up with 21 or more levels, but at 13....I suppose it would probably depend on my mood when I built it. Getting dispelled is a royal PITA, but with HiPS to defend against it isn't the end of the world. To be honest though I'm not sure what you would do with those last 8 levels going R13/A9... Is there anything you can grab that is better than R21? I suppose you could go Arcane Archer, but then you would want Archery style anyway (Hunter does not give Improved Rapid Shot which will require you to take Point Blank Shot to qualify for) and are thus better off going either R14/A9/AA7 or R13/A9/AA8. The nature of AA means you don't need TWF feats, but I suppose could still go Hunter for the extra +2 damage/spot/etc. against 2 additional enemy types (+5 > +3 after all). I would say though that the Ranger spells even at CL 13/14 or 17/18 are still really beneficial to have and thus warrant consideration.

To some extent I think we all as players sometimes put far too much weight on dispels. Assassin is the most popular PRC and it'd be interesting to note how many of those players utilize the Assassin buffs. I know on my Assassin I use them all the time. Yes, they occasionally get dispelled, but you have multiple casts...just reapply them if you fail to doge (hips) to avoid the dispel. *shrug* To each their own mate, if you feel Hunter is the better choice then that is the route you should take!

Well if one were to go brutal throw EDM and just use manyshot when in hips mode, how important would improved rapid shot be? And switch to twf when on stealth timer.