Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I have a question to people who are sometimes/constantly requesting personal or guild DM events from the DM team and actually recieving DM help — how are you doing it? What is your secret?

No, seriously, I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, I really want to know. Do you simply send a request and politely wait for the response for as long as you must or you're poking the team every week? Do you just briefly and dryly write what you want or you're trying to interest the team as if you're a new writer who comes to a publishing office? Are you adressing to the team in general or request events by certain DMs? Do you contact DM team only when you need an event or you're keeping in touch with them, informing them about your character progress, what things did happen to your character, what assets did it acquire, what rolls and where/when did it make etc. And how much time and headache did it usually take to get something done and was it worth it?

That's true I'm irritated and disappointed that most of the things I requested (except one micro-event) were ignored/forgotten, but I'm trying to find a solution! Maybe that's me doing something wrong? Share your thoughts!

Wait, patiently. And don't rely on getting assistance in order to continue with your RP. Because honestly, many times you simply won't get the assistance you ask for. The math is simply far far far too many requests for the DM Team to handle, and that comes after the first step of generating interest TO help, based on your request.

That's my advice, after 9+ years on the Server, and being a player/DM/HDM on BGTSCC.

I'd agree that you should never pin a plot or a character story arc on requiring DM assistance.

While it would be nice, in an ideal world, to have enough DMs to go around to be able to support every single player request or story arc, it's just not something that we can promise with our current resources -- and the current size of our player base (if we had about 40-50 fewer players, we could probably do more direct/personal DM events for the remainder, for example).

The way I've always looked at direct DM support is "it would be nice to have, but I'm pushing forward with 'plan B' if I don't get it." Having a contingency course or story arc for your PC, your guild, your group, or what have you, is important to keeping your personal story moving. Naturally, if you need to assume some weird stuff in order to make it move forward, you should at least get the DM Team's stamp of approval for doing so, even if you can't get a DM there to oversee it and support it in game.

Thanks for the answers! It would still be interesting to hear players' side of the story, though. Also, this differs a little bit from what I see in-game. For example, while you're saying that you don't have enough DMs to answer requests, certain guilds are getting regular events every week. This even leads to (in my opinion) very unhealthy situations where the players of these guilds log only/mostly for these events while remaining inactive all other time. This strongly contradicts to your words about "player initiative first, DM support later". I'd also note that I wasn't only requesting events for my characters — I was making requests for my guild as well. What am I doing wrong and what members of those guilds are doing right?

In general, if a DM seems to be giving repeat events to a group of players, they've probably become involved in that DM's ongoing campaign arc in some fashion or another. That's usually based around DM initiative, rather than player event requests. That kind of comes down to being lucky enough to have your group's interest in alignment with the DM's interests for the duration of said campaign.

That being said, I don't know the specifics of what you're referring to; so I'll let others reply to your post -- if some groups have been more successful than others at attracting DM interest, perhaps they do have some tips to share!

Attracting DM attention is a many-layered thing.

I'll speak a bit from my own perspective as a DM.

First of all, I think it's important to recognise that DMs are volunteers. We do it because we enjoy it. More on that later.

For instance, I personally do take note of player groups (or actual guilds) who manage to keep active and do things without requiring DM attention. That makes me want to give them some attention. But then what kind of activity are they actually doing? Because sometimes the activity is certainly making fun for the group itself, but is a hassle on many around them. That then reduces my wish to give attention.

What about direct requests, then? Well, this is even more complicated. The requests tend to be all over the place. Now, again, we DM because we enjoy it. But not all DMs enjoy DMing all kinds of events. All kinds of themes. I for instance don't like doing too much political DMing or the hack & slash kind of events. I also very much try to keep my groups relatively small (max 6-7 players) so each player feels like they can contribute to the actual RP, rather than just be a weapon for when mobs appear to be killed. I do enjoy investigative plots and events, and heavy RP kind of things. So that's me.

Very often the requests are also just not feasable. They may be very creative and on the paper fun ideas, but there's also a concern about what precedent allowing something sets. Or a mismatch between the expectation of the players and the severe, almost inevitable outcome of a request.

Lets say you want to assassinate Liia, for instance. Should we as a DM team allow you to attempt that? Maybe. I think we should. But is it likely to succeed? No, not at all. Indeed, it is almost impossible, given the security around the dukes, and how actually powerful they are themselves. All of them are former adventurers, after all. So should we then cater to everyone who wants to be stupid and try to assassinate a duke only to very easily fail spectacularly? Again, I'd be open to do that. But also, the spectacular fail would have to come with actual consequences. You can't just attempt to murder a Duke and then keep on living when caught. And it would be effectively inevitable you'd get caught. But what happens then if that outcome doesn't match the player's expectations? We get complaints. Unwarranted, too. Even if we try to make it clear exactly what is likely to happen. So maybe it is better to just save everyone the headache and not allow it? I don't know what the optimal thing to do here is.

But that's an extreme example. There is a grey area as well. Quite large, actually. Between these requests that are so obviously going to fail and those simpler requests that we can easily pick up and just run without any concern for precedent or anything. You guys are a creative bunch and we often get requests that are kind of can that there may be worms in. Do we open it? We could be opening a can of worms. We don't know what's inside it. Maybe then we need some precautions in case we get overwhelmed by worms. A kind of can we've never seen before, so it takes us a bit of time to figure out what sort of precautions we may have to take - or if there are any feasable precautions we can make at all.

All of these things play a role in which requests get picked up on. Again, it is important to recognise that we do this because we enjoy it first of all. And if we don't we're not going to.

Food for thought.

I would have to say that what Ghost has written is pretty well spot on how i felt about it as well. The team does what they can to be accommodating towards the players and their requests but it cant be expected that you will always get what you want.

There are certain things that just cant be allowed because it could possibly cause a lot of trouble and/or expectations when it comes to future events and the effect they can have on the server. There is of course no harm in putting in a request and asking for some help with a plot/event that you would like to be part of/run, but again don't always expect it to be a yes!

Another thing people tend to forget is that as players we may be mechanically level 30 but the general consensus is we are closer to lvl 15 in terms of relative power. This means walking in to say a place like the Palace to assassinate someone would be incredibly hard if not downright impossible.

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm First of all, I think it's important to recognise that DMs are volunteers.

This is just an excuse, I have been around long enough as a human involved in many volunteer organizations to know it is as such that I claimed.

Politics play a big part in others getting into a position of power above others, weather the reason being they are a friend to over all simply brown nosing.

You get two main types who are in power, they either do or just just don't. A lot of the times you get others who are lazy or just have 0 leadership qualities about them, but they get in regardless.

------------------

Now as for the on topic bit? Poke them once a week till they give a verdict. It is how I managed to get PC biographies looked at to see if they are lore appropriate, I gave zero shit for the pitiful rewards as that was not the incentive. Merely a side affect.

A yes/no response should be given regardless of the circumstances in my mind.

But if three weeks go by? Then no answer should be the answer, meaning simply 'no'.

Player guilds and even focal guilds are very capable of being involved in ongoing current plots regardless, assuming they have a positive rep with others. If your not getting a lot of DM attention as a group your better off trying to ally with anyone who may be.

I have been in guilds who have a strong neutral stance and only thing outside of that would be negative status. Don't be that, is my advice. Try to make proper alliances to get involved, and through credibility your guild may get attention in what it may specialize in that could support it.

That's just what I would do, if anything at all.

I think you missed my point about volunteering. I wasn't talking about accountability here. I was only saying that DMs will pick up on things they think are fun, because they wouldn't be DMing unless it was fun.

As someone who has had a couple of dm plots land in my lap or had dm's interact with my characters, I think what you really want to do to get DM attention, if that is what you seek, try and be inclusive and spread current dm plots/events. Pick up on the plots the DM's are already giving out to you, the clues, the notes, follow up and chase people who were at the events and such. Show that YOU, the person, are willing to work and go in depth with what the DM's are already giving out.

DM Forum rumours have something about a missing caravan and three adventurers were sighted there with some loose descriptions of those characters? You can bet someone in the game will know more about it. I know for a fact if I need more information I have a couple of in-game roleplayers my current character would seek out, to see if they had further leads or had heard anything. Rummage around, do some IC digging. Use your current network and allies in the game to find out what happened, speak to those people. Offer assistance if your character would do so to those characters, or pump them for information. By doing this you also show those players you are interested in what their actions were, what happened and what might be possible to progress it. They may then include you in the next event/DM plot they are currenlt involved in

In my experience, if you show you are willing IC to work for a bit, the DM/plots tend to include you suddenly, or little hints will be all around you.

I have had moments where DM's might whisper me, guiding my character towards a plot that is of interest to my character/allies/friends because I may have missed the obvious, or not so obvious hints that DM may have already put into the game.

Try not to make the plot about you, perhaps make it more about the guild/group you are with. You now found out this earlier Caravan actually transported important books, evil books, dangerous books, which were going to Candlekeep for safe keeping. What do you do now? Do you go and offer your aid to Candlekeep? What are your character's motives for helping Candlekeep? Are they more inclined to go to the thieves guild if you have access to them and offer this snippet of information instead? Do you actively find and join a group seeking these books now that they are gone? End of the day a lot of DM plots don't need the DM's to progress them. Workaround the DM as much as you can. Instead of telling them what you WANT to happen, tell them what happened and what you did on your character around the game in regards to their plot. They may correct some things, or clarify some, they may even then see you as a likely candidate to be part of said event.

None the less, even if you do all the above, perhaps you, the character, simply do not fit well into what the DM's overall arc for the story, that happens to. Don't be discouraged if they simply say to you in a tell "You may be a bit too high level for this, is more aimed at lower levels to solve" - A good focus for DM's is to target new players, not those that were here for a year+ - We are already clearly going to stick around for some longer time, but the new players may not, especially if all the DM's do is focus on veteran players plots and dreams. Those people already have others their can RP with, other peoples plots they can access. New players will likely stick around more if suddenly during a solo dungeon run a angel, vampire, demon, hafling, suddenly pops up, speaks to them, and they are now suddenly throw head first into a DM plot.

If none of the above work? Hell, simply send a tell to a person who is doing a dm plot, ask if you can be involved, tell them your vision of it, if it matches, great, you got yourself a free dm plot.

As long as you are not playing a elf, you should be fine!

As long as you are not playing a elf, you should be fine!

Slander! Playing an elf is perfectly fine! >:(

How to get more involved in DM plots, how to become noticed by DMs? Well, there is a ton and even then some that can be said here. I rather stay to the super positive that I think helps address the current environment


1. In my experience, groups get noticed. When random pick up events happen, DMs often target a group of players. Three or more adventures walking down the road. A few people roleplaying in a random dungeon. Be in a group. This also goes with requesting. My “friends and I” want to achieve X and I strongly believe everyone should always treat requests like an essay. List a clear goal. “We want to learn/find X”. “We want to speak/help to X”. Can go into more on what to write but being clear is the key.

Seriously group up, you will get more then a lone wolf.



2. Be polite. A request to the DMs shouldn’t come worded off as a demand but make it intriguing to the other party. If it doesn’t sound polite and interesting to you as you read it back to yourself, then the other side won’t think so either. Sure some may say it’s brown nosing, but is being polite really come to that? Though after the event make sure to send the dm feed back. Heck. I think if someone went through the trouble to help your request make an rp post about it. Sorta sense in pride in seeing those sorts of things and it can cause a dm to want to run more!!! — or that follow up. . Politeness is the key to any request!


3. Act like you are involved. Sometimes some characters appear to be invovolrd in just about every plot and event when that is far from the truth. However this acting can lead to actually getting involved. What is this acting? It is actually being interested in other people’s characters and not just your own. This is a community group and no one character is the star of the show or main point of view character. Think of yourself as part of a team of characters and you may find yourself interested in other people’s characters which can also lead to more events.


4. If you can’t get into events, just start running them yourself? This comes to ways. I know some great role players who just do stuff for them and their group of pals and it’s amazing. No official dm no nothing beside amazing and intresting role play. Why do you need a dm to explore the back story of your character or that of a friends ? You can help them come to terms with herself or astrange family with out a dm. You can even weave a tale of revenge with out a dm!

——. But even then it’s not enough? I get that! It’s. Drive a want so why not apply to be a dm and show the realm what your story telling can do. It is like no other experience in the world, go for it.

Aside from the number of very good and valid suggestions listed by everyone else, here’s a couple (ok, a few. I outdid myself )of my own suggestions-

1. Patience was mentioned, and is likely the most critical point. That, and the willingness to do the weekly bump. Consider the number of players versus active DMs, and assume that your request is likely one of many- along with all the other administrative things the DM team has to handle. Their In-Box overfloweth.

As much as it may rankle, accept that having to send reminders is just what needs to be done.

2. Consider what your request is about. Does it tie in, in any way, to current activities, or the meta-plot of the server? That sort of thing, and- as before mentioned- being able to tie into already moving plot lines will increase your likelihood of success by a great deal.

3. How does it involve other people? If you’ve got an idea that will give a number of individuals an opportunity to have a rewarding RP experience, again- you have a better chance. On the flip-side of that, if your request seems aimed at something that opens itself up to PVP, know that the DM team will not touch that. That’s not to say faction vs faction events aren’t possible- but you have to rethink your idea so that the actual event itself doesn’t include PVP- if pvp eventually comes about as a result of the events, so long as it keeps the server rules regarding such in mind, that becomes the choice of the players involved.

4. I think it’s already been stated, but pitch your idea- keep in mind you’re “selling” a story concept to the DM team. Include IC narrative in your pitch, along with OOCly explaining what your goal is. Keep in mind a format of “Idea, conflict, possible resolutions, long term affect”

5. Understand that, even if your story is accepted, the final outcome may not at all be what you were hoping for, or it could be, or it could be....wiiiiith conditions applied, depending on character actions, how the dice roll and a lot of other conditionals during the course of the event. It should never be assumed as an automatic win- so factor that into your request as well.

Huh, well going off what DM Ghost said that seems kinda one sided.

The actions of things that bare no consequence what so ever would just seem easier and less of a hassle. And thus would be things that can easily be presented and accepted by the DM team due to the sheer lack of any real consequence to the event that the team themselves would need to think up.

Let's start a parade? "Sure."

Can we throw a ball? "Sounds easy enough."

Can we travel on an expedition out to slay the evil orc warlord terrorizing the coast? "The people will rejoice!"

But then what about that -player- who is that evil orc warlord who wanted to do that same exact thing to the hero's? Thus consequences arise and less DM's seem fit for the task simply due to just that. . . -Consequence- since that is now something that is applied to the decisions it almost cancels out any -Associate DM- to help out in what it is that evil warlord wanted to do. It almost seems like, just the sheer fact of evil bares consequences by itself and thus have will less support due to what evil is. A villain who wants to scheme, destroy, and conquer (which is three base-line things that villains do) would likely never get to do just that. Because of exact-ally what DM Ghost said:

But that's an extreme example. There is a grey area as well. Quite large, actually. Between these requests that are so obviously going to fail and those simpler requests that we can easily pick up and just run without any concern for precedent or anything.

And thus based on that it seems like people trying to be super-hero's would in fact have a much easier time then people who are trying to be super villains. It seems just much easier for the DM's to allow the players to save the world then it does to allow players to destroy it.

Which is probably why there is such an imbalance between good and evil on the server entirely. Because the event's that good aligned character bring forth have no consequence against what other players are doing. And the event's that evil aligned characters bring forth do have consequence and would automatically be less picked up upon by the staff do to just that by itself. Which in my opinion kinda sucks.

A talosian that can't destroy anything because it would likely lead to his death?

A bhaalite that can kill anyone because it would likely lead to his death?

A mykrulite that can't raise and undead army even after years of RP because it would likely lead to his death?

Villains live and die, as heros do.

I'll throw this out.

I'd say roughly a year ago (more? less? not sure anymore) I wanted to try and get my Toman into some sort of crafting, via Black-smithy (of which he has training in both weaponcrafting and armorcrafting). Granted, we don't really have much of a crafting system beyond some very bare bones, but I was hoping that I could at least do something.

So, I did some RP with some folks, and I actually received some interest from players, both for pure RP items that had no physical aspect in game, but on occasion, a couple real items, one of which was granted. Indeed, a forge was added to the Phoenix Company hall that Toman was to work from, with the iron-clad agreement that ANY adventurer, noble, commoner, or whomever who needed repairs or help that he could offer from there, would be accepted.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm hoping that Toman would've tried to allow crafters more room to ply their trade, and not have to rely upon the mining company (his reasoning behind not bein allowed to craft) to grant him permission for anything.

Sadly, while it's been interesting, I'm afraid I've given up hope on gettin' anywhere with the notion myself. For example, the adamantine razor I was tasked to create, by smelting down an old adamantine half-plate tunic, and forge it into the razor instead. It took over a month for the one item that was granted to be processed, approved, and given to me, and it had ZERO use beyond bein' an item that would sit in your backpack.

Take the above, and that a crafting system has been in the works for well over a couple years now, and while I'd absolutely love to see some events in that style, I just don't see it happening.

So, in short, while some items/ideas/events are feasible, it seems that equally true is that some of them just don't get off the ground. So, take what you have in mind, run it by the DMs, get some ground-work done in game, then hope. Either it will pan out, or it won't. It's just up to chance, luck, and the will of the gods.