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High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:43 pm
by VDub
Winterborne wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:08 pm
If a DM and a group of players want to arrange an event that has high risk and high rewards I think that a standard process for approving something like that might be neat to have. But I think it would be very rarely if ever used by most people.
This was posted in another thread. I found it pretty interesting, and something that I would love to take part in. Though to have it be done right, there would have to be certain rules and guidelines.
I would think that it would have to be more PnP based to work right.
-Encounters based on dice rolls and descriptive actions.
-Lots of communication between players and the DM/DM's running it.
-Probably best if it was six people or less as well, as to not get too confusing.
-I'm imagining the capability to use skills in "out of the box" ways not allowed within the frame of mechanics.
-Perma-death on the table if other party members weren't able to revive.
Would this be something that other players would be interested in as well? Would it be something that a DM would want to undertake? I wouldn't even know how it would be arranged or sparked off, in truth. The idea of it though is very appealing to the old PnP player in me.
If any of you have ideas of how it would be better run, I would enjoy to hear your input. If any DM's have their 2 cents to spend, it would be appreciated as well.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 pm
by Hoihe
Don't make it something that would force paladin-esque characters to participate or break character/face IC ostracization. If you do make that..
Extend permadeath/risk to have the options of lose all items or all levels but retain character instead.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:48 pm
by Kaybrie
I'm always down for high risk events, though I don't necessarily need the descriptive RP/dice rolls when I'm fine with mechanics. Could go either way on that one.
-Probably best if it was six people or less as well, as to not get too confusing.
Also all of this.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:54 pm
by Asmodea
I was once in a plot where there were two groups. One group did an event that was larger and more monster smashing. The DM took Volunteers for a second event that was a Perma-death available strike team kind of thing. You couldn't do both events. The Perma-death event was having trouble finding volunteers because it made people rightfully nervious! I think the rewards other than cudos were the same. It worked out well. Those who didn't want the risk of Perma got involved with the event in the larger scale way. Those who wanted to risk Perma got to do a smaller group higher tension thing and got bragging rights.
10/10 would do again.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:59 pm
by Mursey
I started off playing D&D with the red box, and still run "old school" type Pen and Paper games where the risk of death is very real I far prefer playing pen and paper games where real jeopardy, especially the risk of permanent character death, is very much on the cards. If that means months of my campaign prep work goes down the drain because of a TPK early in the campaign, then so be it. I shrug, put the campaign away, and bring it out again in a year or two to run it with another group. There are no special snowflakes with grand destiny's in my campaigns.
All of which is my convulated way of saying that, as a player, I'm totally down with the risk of permadeath in any event, but especially in high risk/high reward events. I often find RP far less satisfying (and combat much less thrilling) in the absence of permadeath. And I often find it encourages my fellow players and I to think around problems creatively rather than just hacking through them in yet another combat encounter.
I mean, GoT would be far less thrilling and visceral if you didn't tune in every week absolutely terrified that your favourite character would die.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm
by VDub
Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 pm
Don't make it something that would force paladin-esque characters to participate or break character/face IC ostracization. If you do make that..
Extend permadeath/risk to have the options of lose all items or all levels but retain character instead.
I appreciate your input!
Can you explain what you mean by not forcing a Paladin-esque to participate or break character/face IC ostracization?
Part of playing a paladin type character is having to make those choices, right? I wouldn't see it as anyone being forced to break character as you always have the choice to simply walk away from an event you are in if it isn't something that your PC would take part in. If your character doesn't agree with the party as a whole, they can just RP the "Out" and leave, right? That would foster RP on the back end if that were the case, wouldn't it?
Also, the perma-death would only result if the character made a poor choice. That would be the fun of it as you would have to really think and communicate as a team as to how you would handle an encounter. Some people may fall, but as long as you have a healer to raise them. (If they still have the spell or scroll) that shouldn't be too bad, right? Maybe add another dimension to the event if spells are depleted and the group is forced to carry the PC's corpse out and abandon the objective. I would see it as having to have a different mind set going into the event that the usual.
Again, these are only my personal ideas and opinions as the rules of the event would ultimately fall on the DM running it.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:12 pm
by Hoihe
VDub wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm
Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 pm
Don't make it something that would force paladin-esque characters to participate or break character/face IC ostracization. If you do make that..
Extend permadeath/risk to have the options of lose all items or all levels but retain character instead.
I appreciate your input!
Can you explain what you mean by not forcing a Paladin-esque to participate or break character/face IC ostracization?
Part of playing a paladin type character is having to make those choices, right? I wouldn't see it as anyone being forced to break character as you always have the choice to simply walk away from an event you are in if it isn't something that your PC would take part in. If your character doesn't agree with the party as a whole, they can just RP the "Out" and leave, right? That would foster RP on the back end if that were the case, wouldn't it?
Also, the perma-death would only result if the character made a poor choice. That would be the fun of it as you would have to really think and communicate as a team as to how you would handle an encounter. Some people may fall, but as long as you have a healer to raise them. (If they still have the spell or scroll) that shouldn't be too bad, right? Maybe add another dimension to the event if spells are depleted and the group is forced to carry the PC's corpse out and abandon the objective. I would see it as having to have a different mind set going into the event that the usual.
Again, these are only my personal ideas and opinions as the rules of the event would ultimately fall on the DM running it.
Say, En Dharasha is in danger. It's a village defence of all or nothing. I can't just walk out of it.
I am willing to take the risk - I will accept being reset to level 1 from 30 with no XP and my entire inventory wiped if I mess up.
But I do not want my ability to enjoy this game stolen from me.
I do wonder how many people would be willing to give up an entire inventory, or even a vault's worth of items. I feel like people who are cool with permadeath (characters hold no value) may find great trouble with such...
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:19 pm
by VDub
Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:12 pm
VDub wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm
Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 pm
Don't make it something that would force paladin-esque characters to participate or break character/face IC ostracization. If you do make that..
Extend permadeath/risk to have the options of lose all items or all levels but retain character instead.
I appreciate your input!
Can you explain what you mean by not forcing a Paladin-esque to participate or break character/face IC ostracization?
Part of playing a paladin type character is having to make those choices, right? I wouldn't see it as anyone being forced to break character as you always have the choice to simply walk away from an event you are in if it isn't something that your PC would take part in. If your character doesn't agree with the party as a whole, they can just RP the "Out" and leave, right? That would foster RP on the back end if that were the case, wouldn't it?
Also, the perma-death would only result if the character made a poor choice. That would be the fun of it as you would have to really think and communicate as a team as to how you would handle an encounter. Some people may fall, but as long as you have a healer to raise them. (If they still have the spell or scroll) that shouldn't be too bad, right? Maybe add another dimension to the event if spells are depleted and the group is forced to carry the PC's corpse out and abandon the objective. I would see it as having to have a different mind set going into the event that the usual.
Again, these are only my personal ideas and opinions as the rules of the event would ultimately fall on the DM running it.
Say, En Dharasha is in danger. It's a village defence of all or nothing. I can't just walk out of it.
I am willing to take the risk - I will accept being reset to level 1 from 30 with no XP and my entire inventory wiped if I mess up.
But I do not want my ability to enjoy this game stolen from me.
I do wonder how many people would be willing to give up an entire inventory, or even a vault's worth of items. I feel like people who are cool with permadeath (characters hold no value) may find great trouble with such...
I see your point, but I did say an event with 6 or less people. I don't see the elven village being defended on such a small scale. I would see it as more of an offshoot to such an event maybe? Perhaps a small group tries to find an artifact that could save the village in an underground network of caves or something similar. Not a grand battle to save the entirety of a population.
The risk of losing everything would be completely up to the character and the choices made. If the event goes sideways and it seems to risky to the character to continue, they can always express this to the group and suggest that they either move ahead with GREAT caution, or back out and try to find something else that would help/complete the task at hand.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:22 pm
by Hoihe
VDub wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:19 pm
Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:12 pm
VDub wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm
I appreciate your input!
Can you explain what you mean by not forcing a Paladin-esque to participate or break character/face IC ostracization?
Part of playing a paladin type character is having to make those choices, right? I wouldn't see it as anyone being forced to break character as you always have the choice to simply walk away from an event you are in if it isn't something that your PC would take part in. If your character doesn't agree with the party as a whole, they can just RP the "Out" and leave, right? That would foster RP on the back end if that were the case, wouldn't it?
Also, the perma-death would only result if the character made a poor choice. That would be the fun of it as you would have to really think and communicate as a team as to how you would handle an encounter. Some people may fall, but as long as you have a healer to raise them. (If they still have the spell or scroll) that shouldn't be too bad, right? Maybe add another dimension to the event if spells are depleted and the group is forced to carry the PC's corpse out and abandon the objective. I would see it as having to have a different mind set going into the event that the usual.
Again, these are only my personal ideas and opinions as the rules of the event would ultimately fall on the DM running it.
Say, En Dharasha is in danger. It's a village defence of all or nothing. I can't just walk out of it.
I am willing to take the risk - I will accept being reset to level 1 from 30 with no XP and my entire inventory wiped if I mess up.
But I do not want my ability to enjoy this game stolen from me.
I do wonder how many people would be willing to give up an entire inventory, or even a vault's worth of items. I feel like people who are cool with permadeath (characters hold no value) may find great trouble with such...
I see your point, but I did say an event with 6 or less people. I don't see the elven village being defended on such a small scale. I would see it as more of an offshoot to such an event maybe? Perhaps a small group tries to find an artifact that could save the village in an underground network of caves or something similar. Not a grand battle to save the entirety of a population.
The risk of losing everything would be completely up to the character and the choices made. If the event goes sideways and it seems to risky to the character to continue, they can always express this to the group and suggest that they either move ahead with GREAT caution, or back out and try to find something else that would help/complete the task at hand.
Or we could permit people to choose what to lose:
Character/item/levels/item&levels.
Considering those who are willing to lose a character value them less than those not intending to, I find it fair a fair trade.
I'm down for a high risk slow paced event where you might lose your levels or items.
Could even have social consequences, or power-related (wizard disjuncts artifact. Now wizard is no longer able to use the Weave because Mystra is pissed.)
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:39 pm
by VDub
I really don't want to get hung up on the perma-death aspect of it.
What I was really going for is a more PnP type experience. Rolling of initiative, telling the DM what you'd like to do via DM channel, them assigning a dc to your chance and then a descriptive accounting of how the roll played out. Being able to do things that would be possible in PnP that the mechanics just can't/don't allow.
Planning the encounters with the group, IC. Perhaps sending a scout to look ahead, then relaying what they were able to find out from their die rolls and what the DM allowed them to find out from those rolls.
I would think the event would be more fun for both the players and DM if the characters weren't in their epic levels as well. Landing somewhere between level 12 and 18 would be good in my eyes.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:43 pm
by Kaybrie
Suggestion for this I thought of; An OOC level signup for the event before hand. As well as the possible consequences for participating.
Not as organic, but it ensures people who don't want to be involved have no feeling of RP obligation to become involved.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 pm
by VDub
Kaybrie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:43 pm
Suggestion for this I thought of; An OOC level signup for the event before hand.
Not as organic, but it ensures people who don't want to be involved have no feeling of RP obligation to become involved.
That is an excellent suggestion.
Not only would it keep the RP obligation off the table, it would serve as a way for the DM staff to gauge interest. Also a place for folks to find like minded RP'ers!
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:04 pm
by Steve
I appreciate this post/suggestion, VDub.
Because to me, Character Death is part of the high risk/high reward aspect to Role-play that I simply think is missing on BGTSCC. And, when death is regarded as background to Character and Role-play, i.e. it's not an issue to risk, then more folly occurs.
I've posted about Risk vs. Reward
before, and
before!
There are usually many Players who will step up to face the Risk, but I've yet to see the balance of Reward presented.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:18 pm
by Mallore
I think high risk, high rewards is great. I also in an odd camp that the best items should only come from dm events rather then random lucky drops from chests....
But what I don’t get is why are so many people looking for permdeath? Just go play dark souls for a bit to get that fix
. I am being a bit cheeky but dungeons and dragons has a mechanic all about resurrection. It’s a bloody spell in the game. So permdeath to me always screamed of. “I want to ignore a mechanic of the game”.
I do like the idea over all however, maybe intresting to see perhaps status as a risk or reward. Or perhaps something truly epic.... like you tangled with a god. And that is why you permdied ....
Make the story be high too. How often on our server do you hear characters talking seeing their god or a god? In FR lore most characters of note ((which would be ours)) have one divine experience.
Re: High risk/High reward event
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:28 pm
by VDub
Mallore wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:18 pm
I think high risk, high rewards is great. I also in an odd camp that the best items should only come from dm events rather then random lucky drops from chests....
But what I don’t get is why are so many people looking for permdeath? Just go play dark souls for a bit to get that fix
. I am being a bit cheeky but dungeons and dragons has a mechanic all about resurrection. It’s a bloody spell in the game. So permdeath to me always screamed of. “I want to ignore a mechanic of the game”.
I do like the idea over all however, maybe intresting to see perhaps status as a risk or reward. Or perhaps something truly epic.... like you tangled with a god. And that is why you permdied ....
Make the story be high too. How often on our server do you hear characters talking seeing their god or a god? In FR lore most characters of note ((which would be ours)) have one divine experience.
Never once did I say anything about wanting to permakill my character, or having anybody else's character killed permanently. Just that it would be cool to have an event where it was a possibility if your group made bad choices and the spells ran dry. I also suggested that if they had run dry that the group could then decide to abandon the mission and haul the body back to a temple. There is good RP in both victory and defeat, accomplishment and failure.
I'd really just like to see more PnP style events where it is more based on dice rolls and descriptive action than "Hey! There's a monster! ZERG!" I was fortunate enough to have experienced one on the elf I played once and it was a whole lot of fun!
This thread isn't about perma-death. We already have one of those. This thread is about the possibility of an event that is run PnP style where there is risk involved and reward if you happen to accomplish the task at hand.
