Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

In recent years, an obsession with introducing radical changes in the game's mechanics has seemingly swept over some on the BGtSCC staff, so much so, that one almost feels to be playing a different game each year. When is it going to be enough?

For me, the best result from continual game balancing is the ability to adjust the challenges—mobs, traps, bosses, DM created mobs—so that a greater range of Builds, and thus Characters, can be enjoyed to play by us Players.

Just as a small example, for some time I’ve had a Character and Build in mind to play which is a total magic eschewing melee type, but as a Player, OOC, I realize it would be next to impossible to experience 70-80% of the Areas of the Server without magic buffs, exactly because mobs are skewed to resist the power of some Classes, like Bard, FvS, Cleric, Druid, etc.

Additionally, too easy one track super builds cheapen the mechanics experience in Groups, especially because DCs and Skill Checks are the least employed aspect of NWN2/BGTSCC.

Remember that Game Balance does not just mean nerfs, it also means additions and Content that opens up new experiences.

You can’t just “take away” without adding back!

Ill admit the game does seem to be moving away from traditional 3.5 based D&D to a more modern MMO kinda mixed bag of stuff. Honestly while i like some changes that happen but i'm inclined to agree with steve and cosmic here.. it needs to stop. We need more content to enjoy not more changes to classes.

And i mean yeah i get it without some change the server will grow stale and i know that "builders can work on what they like since its unpaid" and "They work on the things they enjoy" and all that.. sure great i get that but a lot of people only stay because they have friends here and eventually you will change things enough that it wont matter anymore and they will leave anyway because its no longer the game they love and enjoy in the first place.

Give us changes that really matter.

Wolfrayne wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:27 am Ill admit the game does seem to be moving away from traditional 3.5 based D&D to a more modern MMO kinda mixed bag of stuff. Honestly while i like some changes that happen but i'm inclined to agree with steve and cosmic here.. it needs to stop. We need more content to enjoy not more changes to classes.

And i mean yeah i get it without some change the server will grow stale and i know that "builders can work on what they like since its unpaid" and "They work on the things they enjoy" and all that.. sure great i get that but a lot of people only stay because they have friends here and eventually you will change things enough that it wont matter anymore and they will leave anyway because its no longer the game they love and enjoy in the first place.

Give us changes that really matter.

One of the devs told me there will br a whole new epic dungeon.

Wolfrayne wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:27 am Ill admit the game does seem to be moving away from traditional 3.5 based D&D to a more modern MMO kinda mixed bag of stuff.

Bingo!

It's almost like this is World of Warcraft or Starcraft or one of those super competitive games. Except it's not that kind of a game, but perhaps the authors of these neverending changes think it is, or want it to be.

Having to relearn the rules every few months is getting a little tiring and it adds nothing to the real enjoyment of D&D, which is RP.

chambordini wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:27 am Balance changes account for a handful of pennies on every dollar (not) spent on BGTSCC's development.
So it's wrong to say the developers's focus is on these sorts of changes. Instead it does seem like the focus of some forum-goers.
These changes are minor, I recommend you consider them as such.

When was the last major change made to the game that didn't involve changing a class that wasn't the removal of the dragonspear map and the addition of a "Tutorial Dungeon" (which was a great idea kudos for that one!) but something that actually contributed to the sole purpose a lot of people come here for and that being RP?

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:03 am

Wolfrayne wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:27 am Ill admit the game does seem to be moving away from traditional 3.5 based D&D to a more modern MMO kinda mixed bag of stuff.

Bingo!

It's almost like this is World of Warcraft or Starcraft or one of those super competitive games. Except it's not that kind of a game, but perhaps the authors of these neverending changes think it is, or want it to be.

Having to relearn the rules every few months is getting a little tiring and it adds nothing to the real enjoyment of D&D, which is RP.

I mean, is it really that difficult?

We added one Frontier map and coming soon are more of those?

We've also added a metric crapton of spells- something that keeps on coming. We have essentially tripled the RP exp gain since 2017 and doubled monster exp gain.

We've nerfed monsters quite a bit to make them more fair and we've added a lot of prcs/classes which -directly- give you a wider variety of roleplay for your characters (unless you're someone that doesn't give a damn about role-playing your classes. If so, don't blame others for seeing bland roleplay of those things about).

Not only we've added classes but also buffed the existing ones, such as divine champion, Darkfire Disciple, Shadow dancer, palemaster and we're still in process of making more changes that are likewise buffs but some of them are also nerfs. Some of them are both, even.

Quite frankly, all of those changes don't make for an entirely new game, but they do require thinking more about the playstyle and how it changes from how it was before.

TheKai wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:54 am

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:03 am

Wolfrayne wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:27 am Ill admit the game does seem to be moving away from traditional 3.5 based D&D to a more modern MMO kinda mixed bag of stuff.

Bingo!

It's almost like this is World of Warcraft or Starcraft or one of those super competitive games. Except it's not that kind of a game, but perhaps the authors of these neverending changes think it is, or want it to be.

Having to relearn the rules every few months is getting a little tiring and it adds nothing to the real enjoyment of D&D, which is RP.

I mean, is it really that difficult?

It could be the easiest thing in the world and it would still be contrary to the spirit of the game, completely needless and uncalled for, and even shallow as far as novelty goes. Some of us shy away from ultra competitive games whose mechanics have to keep on changing whenever the next broken thing is discovered, and we instead prefer games that relegate mechanics to the background and instead focus on storytellimg and roleplay, but BGtSCC has been veering towards the former group, it seems.

You tell us "is it really that hard to keep up?"

In that case, I tell you "go and play WoW".

Do you like my reply?

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 9:47 am

TheKai wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:54 am

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:03 am
Bingo!

It's almost like this is World of Warcraft or Starcraft or one of those super competitive games. Except it's not that kind of a game, but perhaps the authors of these neverending changes think it is, or want it to be.

Having to relearn the rules every few months is getting a little tiring and it adds nothing to the real enjoyment of D&D, which is RP.

I mean, is it really that difficult?

It could be the easiest thing in the world and it would still be contrary to the spirit of the game, completely needless and uncalled for, and even shallow as far as novelty goes. Some of us shy away from ultra competitive games whose mechanics have to keep on changing whenever the next broken thing is discovered, and we instead prefer games that relegate mechanics to the background and instead focus on storytellimg and roleplay, but BGtSCC has been veering towards the former group, it seems.

You tell us "is it really that hard to keep up?"

In that case, I tell you "go and play WoW".

Do you like my reply?

I don’t mind it, its a discussion.

I have played WoW before, have you? If you did, you’d know that this game is the farthest thing from being competitive. I enjoy RP and good story telling as well, which is why I came back here. But I do also see the reasons why the balance team is doing what theyre doing..even if that means me having to rememorize what something does.

It was not my intention in my above comment to disagree with game balance initiatives. I think they can be appropriate, though, as with all things, not 100% infallible.

To reiterate my point, balancing the game often requires more than changing one thing, but adjusting many things simultaneously. When those changes and the resulting balance creates a more varied playing field and more possibilities in experience, then it is totally win-win for everyone.

It would be a great shame if we didn't have a fluid and growing/changing Server. And sometimes, what just need to be promoted more, along with Changes and their commentary, is more about the Standard to which the Server is aligning, so that everyone gets clear perspective, and doesn't end up feeling negatively affected in their personal game experience.

Personally, I'm very glad we have Devs on Staff that are adding/changing game aspects. The opposite would be a Permanent-yet-Static World, which would be terrible.

As for mechanics vs RP/Story focus issues, I'm far more interested in the latter, in BGTSCC, but again, not all mechanics and aspects of a Character Sheet are equal in BGTSCC, nor fully utilized. Mechanics are an undeniable aspect underlying the RP under the umbrella of "Play your Sheet," and a hell of a lot more "game balance" could be implemented by really looking at how Sheets are played, or not, and thus keeping to the D&D experience that is argued is the biggest reason the majority of us are here as Players and DMs.

While some changes make the gameplay fun others kind of ruin it, in some way it is a necessary evil as a lot of changes are good.
Long ago summons had a 6sec a level on BGTSCC , the devs didn't wanted to change it even though having this 12 second badger as mage was terrible.
There are many other positive changes made to the server and BTCSS always presented itself as a server for everyone.


I do ask myself in how much balance is really needed in D&D as from it's core D&D is one big unbalanced mess.
When it comes to BGTSCC I think balance changes are too often made with out taking fun into account.



The 3/20 rule:All this rule ever did was streamlining power builds while gutting creative builds that require a dip of 1 or 2 levels in a certain class to enable prestige classes. With out the 20/3 rule you will still have power builds, it's just that they aren't all copy cats.

This rule has nothing to do with D&D but is mainly meant to stop people from dipping 1 level into cleric or 1 level into shadow dancer.
I would genuinely wish we could give it a go to make it a 1/20 rule first and just ban cleric and shadow dancer from being picked as one class.
This opens the road to a lot of fun builds that aren't overpowered while the streamlined power builds builds remain pretty much untouched.




Caster level


I agree with the idea that your caster level should be depended on how many levels you actually have in a caster class , however in practice it doesn't work so well. The amount of caster NPC'S on this server is ridiculous ,each one of them knows how to dispel you. In fact it's the first thing all of them do, spam dispel and die after it. At some point you find more mages than melee fighters when fighting NCPs.
Personally I would say that reverting the change back or just adjust mobs would be something to look into. Having caster level being depended on your character level allows once again for a lot of fun creative builds (bard/cleric).



Unnecessary changes Some class changes are made because a certain powerbuilds would be too strong, however in the progress this action destroys 10 non powerbuilds in terms of usefulness. For example swashbuckler combat insight requires now level 5, these nerfs hit regular builds as well.
However it is hard to take any balance serious when you look at how bards and dragon druids have been for years on this server., it feels like the dev teams is inconsistent when it comes to balancing things up to the point that I believe it might be worth discussing if it is really needed to go into this slippery slope.



I would like it if we had less rules and more freedom in terms of building, let people just do what they like even if it means that some will run around with powerbuilds. They do that now anyway and there is nothing you can do about it, but at least the rest of us can have a RP build that isn't punished by rules meant to stop the power building.
There is no real balance on the server and in the end making a powerbuild is more rewarding than having RP skills/RP build.


My thoughts:

1: Get rid of the 20/3 rule or at best make it 20/1
2: Change back the caster level change
3: Change as many core D&D abilities back as possible
4: Get rid of HIPS all together, the hide rogue has falls more in line.
5: Don't balance the server around a couple of powerbuilds
6: Keep in mind what is fun in D&D and ignore mmo's pve balance.



Leaving balance for what it is will free you up a lot more time while in the end pondering about when ever a barbarian needs 2 AC more or less is just meaningless in a setting like this.

Please, can we get level-restricted items back again ?

Balance changes actually allow for more content. When classes have reached the peak of what would be considered BG power balance it actually becomes harder to develop new content for them. You have to consider is this going to push them over, why would anyone take this option over the others and so on, so by keeping everything at a more well rounded level you leave more room to experiment with different additions.

War priest is just a fine example of this with the current changes, while divine power was at it's previous point this class was entirely under powered and over looked. After the change however it's a more viable option for a melee based cleric, in fact it will boost your BAB while not effecting what you gain from DP meaning an overall buff.

I welcome and appreciate the balancing including the nerfs. Good work!