Divine Spellpower

[Kobamw]

I'm extracting this topic to a separate thread as it looks like it got lost in a previous post

So, is there anyone with experience on using Divine Spellpower? I’m experimenting with it on a divine DC caster and I’m not sure how to maximise its usefulness. There are many feats that improve it but I’m unsure which are justified to take. The build will be full CL, with 2 Spellpower feats from Hierophant, all 3 Spell Focus feats, but without Sun Domain (no room for that for RP reasons). The idea is to add another +3 CL from Divine Spellpower. The feat provides variable CL bonus based on a Charisma check. Since this is a divine caster I pump Wisdom and have Charisma at +4 (+2 natural + spell buff). To have +3 CL I need to roll at least 19 modified result or 15 on d20 (30% chance).

Now, the questions are:

• Mastery of Energy (Hierophant) – gives a flat +4 bonus to the roll giving 50% chance of +3 CL. This seems like a no brainer, right?

• Advanced Divine Spellpower – protects negative CL adjustment but with Mastery of Energy it’s only 5% risk. In my testing (having both MoE and ADS as well as Empower Turning) I actually never even rolled zero adjustment (but see point 3 below)… Additionally it allows a CL bonus above +4. However, to be helpful I would need +5 CL (after taking 3rd spellpower feat from Hierophant) or +6 CL. There’s 20% or 5% chance of doing that, respectively (but also see point 3 below). So the benefits of this feat seem to be very low, right?

• Empower Turning – the description indicates it should not affect the Turning Check. However, in my testing I noticed that my rolls improved. On the other hand they never got out of scale (i.e., were not higher than 28). Does anyone have experience with that? If it contributes to Turning Check, then on a roll of 20 you could go to 30

• Improved Turning – does it contribute to Turning Check of Divine Spellpower. I was not even able to test this feat… Does it just give +1 flat bonus; or nothing at all?

[Steve]

To quote Le Master (hope this helps you too):

[Divine Spellpower] works as it is documented.

1. check = 1d20 + CHA mod + 3 (+1d4 if sun domain, +4 if Hierophant master of energy)

2. If you have Hierophant advanced divine spell power the result above is set to 10 if < 10.

3. Check >= 22 => +4 CL
Check >= 19 => +3 CL
Check >= 16 => +2 CL
Check >= 13 => +1 CL
Check >= 10 => No change
Check >= 7 => -1 CL
Check >= 4 => -2 CL
Check >= 1 => -3 CL
Check < 1 => -4 CL

If you have advanced divine spell power you can go past the +4 cap

Check >=25 => +5 CL
Check >=28 => +6 CL
Check >=31 => +7 CL
Check >=34 => +8 CL
Check >=37 => +9 CL
Check >=40 => +10 CL

The effect lasts for n rounds where n is your wisdom modifier.

[Kobamw]

I don’t know how I missed this when I was searching for information Or how I missed this from Tsidkenu

If you want the math as to why it's below.

Hidden: show

ADSP Turning check (assuming 14 base CHA + Eagle's)

1d20 +3 (innate DSP Bonus) +4 (CHA) = 8-27.

10% chance of -1 CL (Total roll 8-9)
15% chance of +0 CL (Total roll 10-12)
15% chance of +1 CL (Total roll 13-15)
15% chance of +2 CL (Total roll 16-18)
15% chance of +3 CL (Total roll 19-21)
15% chance of +4 CL (Total roll 22-24)
15% chance of +5 CL (Total roll 25-27)

=60% chance of CL 35 with Hiero Spellpower III and 15% chance of CL 38.

With 16 base CHA + Eagle's (thus 1d20 +3 +5 = 9-28) you get a max CL of +6

5% chance of -1 CL (Total roll 9)
15% chance of +0 CL (Total roll 10-12)
15% chance of +1 CL (Total roll 13-15)
15% chance of +2 CL (Total roll 16-18)
15% chance of +3 CL (Total roll 19-21)
15% chance of +4 CL (Total roll 22-24)
15% chance of +5 CL (Total roll 25-27)
5% chance of +6 CL (Total roll 28)

65% chance of CL 35+ and 20% chance of CL 38.

DSP Turning Check with Master of Energy (assuming 14 base CHA + Eagle's)

1d20 +3 (Innate DSP bonus) +4 (CHA) +4 (MoE)

5% chance of +0 CL (Total roll 12)
15% chance of +1 CL (Total roll 13-15)
15% chance of +2 CL (Total roll 16-18)
15% chance of +3 CL (Total roll 19-21)
50% chance of +4 CL (Total roll 22-31*)

*DSP cannot exceed a total bonus of +4 CL.
The above allocation in addition to Hierophant Spell Power III will give you a reasonable 80% chance of getting a min CL of 35 for an epic DC point but 0% chance of reaching CL 38 (no ADSP).

If you have ADSP + MoE it is as follows:

5% chance of +0 CL (Total roll 12)
15% chance of +1 CL (Total roll 13-15)
15% chance of +2 CL (Total roll 16-18)
15% chance of +3 CL (Total roll 19-21)
15% chance of +4 CL (Total roll 22-24)
15% chance of +5 CL (Total roll 25-27)
15% chance of +6 CL (Total roll 28-30)
5% chance of +7 CL (Total roll 31)

Meaning you have a 35% chance of reaching the sweet spot of CL 38 for another DC point (in combination with Spell Power III) and an 80% chance of consistently reaching at least CL 35

Of course a full CHA aasimar cleric with MoE takes full advantage of ADSP.

1d20 +3 (Innate DSP Bonus) +14 (CHA) +4 (MoE) = 22-41

15% chance of +4 CL (Total roll 22-24)
15% chance of +5 CL (Total roll 25-27)
15% chance of +6 CL (Total roll 28-30)
15% chance of +7 CL (Total roll 31-33)
15% chance of +8 CL (Total roll 34-36)
15% chance of +9 CL (Total roll 37-39)
10% chance of +10 CL (Total roll 40-41)

A CHA cleric will have poor DCs despite the caster level increase because of its consequentially low Wisdom scores, so it's use is primarily to extend buff duration and spell resistance granted by the 5th level spell for a juicy 55 SR with hierophant Spell Power III.

Not to mention I forgot about adding the +3 innate bonus to turning check

Anyway, all the above confirms that Empower Turning and Improved Turning should not impact Divine Spell Power at all. Master of Energy is a must. Then the math for taking Advanced Divine Spell Power in my case is:

• With 2 Hierophant’s spellpower feats and 32 CL at the start, the chance for +1 DC (+3 CL) is 65%, while the chance for +2 DC (+6 CL) is 20%

• With 3 Hierophant’s spellpower feats and 33 CL at the start, the chance for +1 DC (+2 CL) is 80%, while the chance for +2 DC (+6 CL) is 35%

Trouble is I may be forced to take either 3rd spellpower or Advanced Divine Spell Power. So the choice is between increasing +1 DC chance from 65% to 80% or getting 20% chance for +2 DC. It kind of feels like the 20% chance to have 5 percentage points higher chance of success is not really worth it, but I’m not sure.

On a related note, since Empower Turning and Improved Turning do not contribute I have one pre-epic feat slot empty. I already have 2 spell focus feats, spellcasting prodigy, extend spell and divine spell power. Any ideas what I could take?

[chad878262]

What is your spell focus? You might consider Empower Spell if going Evocation or Silent Spell if Necromancy Focused for example (to allow you to cast your best spells at another level/slot).

[Kobamw]

My Spell Focus is Conjuration, because the build has Thaumaturge in it. Perhaps you're right that I should add some Metamagic feat to improve spell book mangement.