Rogue Questions

Suggestions or Mechanical Requests for Classes, Feats, Races, Etc.

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Blackman D
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Blackman D » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:56 am

yea it was garbage because it was a low DC and the poison doesnt stack if they do fail and it was waaay too expensive for how bad it was

but if its vs negative energy instead of poison that should be better, negative energy penalties should stack

...i still wouldnt use it tho because my daggers are awesome :P :mrgreen:
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Tanlaus
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Tanlaus » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:56 pm

So I got my SD to 10. Love the shadow. Still feel it's going to fall off hard compared to any other summons post 20, but so far it's quite useful. Definitely not overpowered, but useful.

I like shadow jump too. Still don't think to use it enough in combat to jump to casters where I can do some damage, but when I do it's great.

What does the other feat for shadow jump, the one for marking, actually do? I tried playing with it but can't figure out what it does yet.

Also I still think shadow daze should be on a timer.

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Deathgrowl
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Deathgrowl » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:29 am

Mark shadow jump is a defunct feat. Artifact from an earlier variant of shadow jump.
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Tanlaus » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:00 pm

Ah, got it. Thanks.

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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Tanlaus » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:02 pm

Does escape artist actually do anything? I noticed getting hit with a bigby’s spell the other day and not seeing any kind of roll to escape it in my combat log.

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Winterborne
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Winterborne » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:55 pm

If EA is higher than your AC the spell checks against EA skill to see if the grapple lands. It does NOT work on the knockdown bigby in any way.

I can get into the 60's EA and while I still take damage, I can often act freely during the spell which makes surviving much easier.
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Snarfy
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Snarfy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm

chad878262 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:28 pm
Of course in epics your DCs will skyrocket and at level 30 you would have 10 + 10 (sneak dice, without any feats on improved sneak attack) + 4 (Rogue 20) + 6 (CL 30) = 30.
Ermagerd. Does death attack dice count as sneak dice? If so, I think expose weakness just became obsolete.

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Winterborne
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Winterborne » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:13 pm

They do count as sneak dice. Also no reason most builds can't have both!
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Blackman D
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Blackman D » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:13 pm

they are sneak attack dice yes but do they mechanically count as sneak attack dice? i remember they do not actually count for qualifying for ISA which is why my rogue/assassin only has like 21d6 and not more...

i dont think it was ever changed, i did look at the updates list and saw nothing on it but yea that would be my guess, is that your sneak attack dice still have to come from one source to count for anything
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by chad878262 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:56 am

Snarfy wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
chad878262 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:28 pm
Of course in epics your DCs will skyrocket and at level 30 you would have 10 + 10 (sneak dice, without any feats on improved sneak attack) + 4 (Rogue 20) + 6 (CL 30) = 30.
Ermagerd. Does death attack dice count as sneak dice? If so, I think expose weakness just became obsolete.
Actually Expose Weakness is in the best spot it has EVER been in with regards to sneak attack based characters. You see, it has always been better to take Epic Prowess + EW over Improved Sneak Attack x2, but especially when they doubled the bleed damage (in compensation for reducing the stacking AC malus). However, more recently the resident gnome randomized the AC malus so it is no longer always dodge AC. This is HUGE for Rogue types since dodge AC means nothing to them (their damage comes from sneak attacks when the targets dodge AC is always set to zero, thus receiving a malus to dodge AC is irrelevant).

So, are you going to spend two epic feats to get 2d6 extra sneak attack damage (average ~7 per sneak attack or ~28 damage when landing 4 out of HiPS) or will you spend those two feats to get ~20 bleed damage (assuming 30 DEX) as well as -3 target AC in round 1 and -6 after 3 rounds? sure you lose a little damage, but now your 3rd and 4th sneak attacks out of stealth are more likely to land against bosses, where it matters. ;) Granted, you could apply the malus to dodge...but next time you'll apply it to something else which is better than it used to be!
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Winterborne
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Re: Rogue Questions

Unread post by Winterborne » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:12 am

To add to what Chad said, EWs armor reduction isn't randomized, it goes in order through the types, with dodge being last. As I understand it this means you don't need to worry about it being dodge AC until there's 4 EW debuffs on something.
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