Small flails vs flail

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dmro1994
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Small flails vs flail

Unread post by dmro1994 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:12 pm

Small flail vs normal flail.

Do all my feats still apply and the normal str Conversion to weapon.
Small flail is d6 instead of d8. And critical 19-20/x2 vs 20/x3
Besides that is everything else the same? If I remember correctly there is some other differences but I might be mistaken.

Thanks!

chad878262
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by chad878262 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:20 pm

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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:39 am

I request to make them finessable! Please do this, dev team! It won't really ruin the game balance, nor should it be something overly complicated to do.
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Theodore01
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by Theodore01 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:52 am

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:39 am
I request to make them finessable! Please do this, dev team! It won't really ruin the game balance, nor should it be something overly complicated to do.
Wouldn't that make all Flails finessable ?

And i like to keep PA/IPA with all my Flails/flails.

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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:00 am

Well, I request to make only baby flails finessable (otherwise why they even exist?), hope it's possible!
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Theodore01
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by Theodore01 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:12 am

They exist as a workaround to allow to dualwield flails. (As it is not possible with Flails.)

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chambordini
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by chambordini » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:31 am

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:00 am
Well, I request to make only baby flails finessable (otherwise why they even exist?), hope it's possible!
It's not technically feasible without making an entirely custom implementation a-la intuitive attack, and who knows why they exist? They're from well before my time.

chad878262
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by chad878262 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:47 am

what it boils down to is you can dual wield a Flail and flail or flail/flail while you cannot dual wield a Flail with another Flail. I recall when we discussed in QC there were downsides to any implementation of a 'fix' the developers could come up with and thus it was determined at the time best bet was to leave as is. It isn't perfect, but it is better than not having them at all.
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Steve
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by Steve » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:52 am

Can one TWFighting a Flail and Shortstaff, or would it only be possible with a Shortstaff and a flail?

So what's missing in the conversation is that a bug exists where Flails cannot be in the off-hand, even with OTWF Feat. Thus, the flail was introduced, and though it IS a light weapon—by description at least—it has its own "issue" in that it isn't recognized as a true Finessible Weapon.
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Re: Small flails vs flail

Unread post by chad878262 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:57 am

My understanding is that the finesse weapons are hard coded/cannot be modified so you would need some kind of individual script that looks for light flail equipped in main hand, off hand or both, looks for the Weapon Finesse feat, than does something akin to Intuitive Attack to apply difference of STR mod vs. DEX mod to attack bonus. I think it was a pretty convoluted thought process and then would need additional scripts to apply deadly defense or any other light / finesse weapon pieces. Not a very 'clean' fix and I don't recall if there were issues foreseen with it or not, but ultimately no one picked it up.
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