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Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:19 pm
by JIŘÍ
Is it worth to také it?
Is the special case of daze prevented by protection fo aligment or other mind protecting spells?
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 pm
by flyingchair
From what i've heard it works really well with the charge feat. So if you make character focused around that in combat, it should be pretty powerful.
I dont know about whether protection from alignment makes you immune to the daze or not though.
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:55 pm
by chad878262
Depending on the build Shield Bash, Knockdown, Shield Charge and Shield Slam are very much worth it. The higher the strength the more worth it... On the other hand, the Bash line (Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Specialization, Shield Weapon Focus, Shield Weapon Specialization) are IMO not worth it unless you are building something with 18 levels or more of Fighter that can afford spending that many feats. There are simply put too many other feats competing for a limited number of slots in the pre-epic levels (plus only Fighter can take Shield Weapon Specialization).
So in short, getting a solid DC Stun once per 3 rounds is worth the 4 four feats for some builds, but going after the extra 2 shield attacks per round really isn't except in a very specific scenario where you just have more feats than you know what to do with.
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:12 pm
by JIŘÍ
chad878262 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:55 pm
Depending on the build Shield Bash, Knockdown, Shield Charge and Shield Slam are very much worth it. The higher the strength the more worth it... On the other hand, the Bash line (Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Specialization, Shield Weapon Focus, Shield Weapon Specialization) are IMO not worth it unless you are building something with 18 levels or more of Fighter that can afford spending that many feats. There are simply put too many other feats competing for a limited number of slots in the pre-epic levels (plus only Fighter can take Shield Weapon Specialization).
So in short, getting a solid DC Stun once per 3 rounds is worth the 4 four feats for some builds, but going after the extra 2 shield attacks per round really isn't except in a very specific scenario where you just have more feats than you know what to do with.
The shield slam has as an effect daze, and for example protection from aligment makes oyu immune to mind spells. Is it treated like a mind spell? If yes, then going three feats for that is pointless.
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:39 am
by Theodore01
shield slam is a fine feat
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:55 am
by JIŘÍ
From BG wiki:
Immunity to mind-affecting spells makes a character immune to fear, stun, dominate, charm, daze, and sleep effects, even if not caused by a spell.
So i am not sure if lvl1 spell is able to counter feat requiring another 3 to be taken?
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:44 am
by Theodore01
.....you may make an attack with your shield against an opponent. If you hit, you force the target damaged by this attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Str modifier) in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is dazed for 1 round (until just before your next action). Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be dazed.
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Shield_Slam
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:16 am
by JIŘÍ
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:44 am
.....you may make an attack with your shield against an opponent. If you hit, you force the target damaged by this attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Str modifier) in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is dazed for 1 round (until just before your next action). Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be dazed.
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Shield_Slam
I have read that.
The issue it is listed as dazed effect.
Mind immunity provides immunity to daze.
Protection of Aligment provides immunity to mind spells vs alignment. Thus rendering shield slam useless?
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:39 am
by Theodore01
to make a Fortitude saving throw
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:36 pm
by chad878262
while the effect is 'daze-like' it is not daze... case in point:
wiki wrote:When you daze an opponent with your slam he is thrown off-balance, essentialy being flatfooted. Such an opponent is susceptible to sneak attacks and cannot perform any actions. This includes not being able to drink potions. This is unlike the normal daze effect that spells for example use which seems to protect against sneak attacks and allows dazed creature to drink potions.
Note that it is not the same as the 'normal' daze effect, it is a custom effect caused by the slam and thus is not subject to the same limitations of daze.
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:14 am
by Steve
I’ve witnessed a high STR melee build utilizing Shield Slam and Improved Knockdown in tandem to just completely ruin every other build in PvP.
And mobs have even less Saves and less Intelligence (AI) that the average Player/Build. So yes, Shield Slam is way OP and super awesome so take it for sure where and when you can!
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:39 am
by izzul
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:43 am
by JIŘÍ
I am taking it in on my fs. Let's hope its working
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:47 am
by Theodore01
a FS with high STR ? (22-24 is not high)
Re: Shield bash and shield slam
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:59 am
by JIŘÍ
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:47 am
a FS with high STR ? (22-24 is not high)
Am trading greater str 4 and 5 for the feats and even then will have str past 32.