Improved uncanny dodge/sneak attack classes.

[Snarfy]

A character with this feature can no longer be flanked. This defense denies another character the option to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more class levels, in their class which provides sneak attack, than the target does.

Does anyone know which classes exactly, that give sneak attack bonuses, qualify towards these sneak attack class levels?

The reason I ask is because, after some testing, it appears that Whirling Dervish, despite giving sneak dice(at levels 3, 6, and 9), does not seem to be counting towards this qualification.

The testing involved a character with 27 sneak attack class levels VS. a character with 22 sneak attack levels, plus 8 whirling dervish.

If whirling dervish counted as a qualifier, and if I understand this feat correctly, neither character should have been able to land a flanking/un-stealthed sneak attack on the other. However, the 27 SA character was able to land sneak attacks repeatedly, while the character with WD was not.

Is this even something that can be fixed? (Or is it time for another RCR?)

[izzul]

adding to the question.

I have a glove that gives 1d6 sneak attack.
weapon that gives 1d6 sneak attack
or belt that adds 2d6 sneak attack

if i take PRC such as WD, Assn, that does not use the normal rogue "Vanilla sneak attack"
will it stack?

since they are considered PRC "different sneak attack" compared to "Vanilla sneak attack" from rogue

[Snarfy]

adding to the question.

I have a glove that gives 1d6 sneak attack.
weapon that gives 1d6 sneak attack
or belt that adds 2d6 sneak attack

if i take PRC such as WD, Assn, that does not use the normal rogue "Vanilla sneak attack"
will it stack?

since they are considered PRC "different sneak attack" compared to "Vanilla sneak attack" from rogue

Assassin levels seem fine(they're even in the in-game description of the feat), as do rogue levels, of course. I don't think your gloves and weapons will count since they're just an item, not a class that grants sneak attacks. Easy enough to test, I suppose.

What I cant figure out is which other classes count towards improved uncanny dodge... so far it isn't WD. That leaves bodyguard, guild thief, divine seeker, phantom, and wilderness stalker(maybe others).

My best guess is that PRC's that were part of the original game(IE: assassin, SToA, NW9) will count as "sneak attack classes", but not the others.

[Theodore01]

Sneak-items do not stack with rogue sneak dice (and probably also not with phantoms).

[izzul]

need to know which on stacks with items. probably only death attack stacks with item?

[Theodore01]

It does not stack with any class that gives the sneak attack (+1d6) feat.

[Rudolph]

Importantly, I also don't think sneak attacks on items stack with each other. So a weapon with 1d6, shield with 1d6, helmet with 1d6, and belt with 1d6 would only result in ... 1d6 SA damage.

[Snarfy]

Sneak dice on items do not stack, as far as I know.

Alas, this topic is not about that, it is about improved uncanny dodge.

[chad878262]

@Snarf-man

I checked with Endelyon on discord and Improved Uncanny Dodge is hard coded. There are scripts that fix some things, but for the most part only Rogue and (maybe?) Assassin will work toward stacking levels. Certainly none of the custom classes and even some of the vanilla PRC's that give sneak dice will not stack properly.

She mentioned it is possible an nwnx plugin could be made to fix some things, but it's beyond her scope so unless a skilled developer decides to pick up the challenge of what might be a fools errand it's not likely to be fixed.

I suppose there is a good reason to go Rogue 21/Assassin 9...

[Winterborne]

First off, sneak attack dice from items are basically irrelevant. Sneak dice from any other source means your item gives nothing, and the items never stack. The only situation +sneak dice are useful on an item is if you don't have any sneak dice. The exception is death attack, since that counts as its own thing and isn't technically sneak dice.

When you tested flanking, how did you do it? Character in combat with something and you flanked them? Or did you simply walk up and flank them? If the latter, it's likely your sneak attacks happened due to the character being flat footed outside combat.

[Snarfy]

When you tested flanking, how did you do it? Character in combat with something and you flanked them? Or did you simply walk up and flank them? If the latter, it's likely your sneak attacks happened due to the character being flat footed outside combat.

Characters in combat with a mob, flanking, un-stealthed, yep. The 27 sneak-dice level toon was able to get off sneak attacks, while the toon with WD wasn't. Multiple tries too.

@Snarf-man

I checked with Endelyon on discord and Improved Uncanny Dodge is hard coded. There are scripts that fix some things, but for the most part only Rogue and (maybe?) Assassin will work toward stacking levels. Certainly none of the custom classes and even some of the vanilla PRC's that give sneak dice will not stack properly.

She mentioned it is possible an nwnx plugin could be made to fix some things, but it's beyond her scope so unless a skilled developer decides to pick up the challenge of what might be a fools errand it's not likely to be fixed.

I suppose there is a good reason to go Rogue 21/Assassin 9...