Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

This comment deserved another thread:

Subject: Why the lull? (Poll)

chambordini wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:40 pm Can we address the elephant in the room? The server lacks direction. It's a ghost ship drifting away in a sea of options.
The only way to get people to show up is to do something that would infringe on the virtual red tape everywhere, holding everything together (or apart, rather).

That's just my perspective anyway.

It is disturbing that a active and lasting Staff member has this opinion, and that it may hold water.

However, there is the Server Strategic Planning Document.

So how is reality and opinion not aligning at the moment, or in the recent past?

It is easy to complain. But how about suggestions of what both Players AND DMs and Staff are "looking for" in an experience on BGTSCC that keeps everyone entertained and coming back? Have any positive opinions? What has been your most positive experience on BGTSCC that you would wish to see happen again? And how could you contribute to that manifesting?

My contribution to this, my opinion, is that my best experiences have been the most simple experiences. For example, a dungeon exploration/adventure. Short, sweet, to the point.

Also, the regular small faction/group RP, that can have growth but without grand expectations or interactions, and at times, modest relations with the NPC world. NPC dependency RP never seems to work out for me, in my many years on BGTSCC...but that's just the straw I've picked, I guess.

And a honorable mention is the simple joy of finding some awesome treasure, either at the end of said Adventures or from just relaxing solo exploring, trying to "test" the strength of the PC against the Environment/CR (and often failing too!).

So, I'd say if the Server held a direction to maintain and perhaps amplify some experiences like this, I'll keep logging on.

To answer the "most positive experience and how to see it again" - the heyday of my time here over the last 10 years was when there was a stronger feeling of camaraderie amongst the players. Guilds flourished. Plots were inclusive and encompassing. Roleplay was the focus.

Too often now I can log in (on my primary or one of several established alts) and notice that many of our veteran players are cloistered amongst themselves. Or see folks passing in dungeons and on trails with nary a *nods* or interaction. Plots are kept so private that some of my alts know of things that would be easier accomplished with more involved but they are kept in silos and advanced by the few and the usual.

Yeah yeah 'it's always been like that'. No it hasn't. Yes there has always been some degree of it, but trying to play a new-to-the-server account and character has a pretty high wash out rate unless you intentionally play with those few and usual.

Oh and focus on the RP. So many focus on mechanics and "running x dungeon" that the meaning behind it is lost.

So how can it get better?

Open up your ivory towers. Reach out and be inclusive. Focus on the RP. Take an L every now and then for the sake of roleplay. Players, Factions, and DMs all. We will be stronger and more rich for the efforts.

Oh yeah, and new content and RCRs help.

I find myself echoing Steve. All the focus on grand world-spanning stuff with massive stakes can get exhausting. Dungeon crawls, exploration, living world without anyone trying to force their "mark" through trying to make it be "if you fail XYZ horrible bad thing will happen!" rather than "if you fail, no rewards for you." would be the idealmost focus.

So like, some unknown ruin unearthed, random appropriate group of 6 players grabbed, they either succeed and get something nice or fail and they don't, maybe they lose some gold. No super stakes of "If you fail, this entire village/regiment/your PC is gone."

As for ivory towers, can't speak for other guilds, but both CK/DA are wide open for appropriate characters(neutral/good half/elves and scholars) to join and both are very welcoming of brand new players too.

I've noticed lately that when I try and ask people IC to get involved in plots I see running and have knowledge of most of the time I get turned down. I feel like maybe people around currently aren't looking for that? Don't know. I thought it was odd though.

Winterborne wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:48 am I've noticed lately that when I try and ask people IC to get involved in plots I see running and have knowledge of most of the time I get turned down. I feel like maybe people around currently aren't looking for that? Don't know. I thought it was odd though.

That could be due to an IC compatibility issue, tbh.

In some situations that's the case I am sure, but in others I get the impression people are more just not interested in being involved in plot related stuff over day to day character activity.

Winterborne wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:03 pm In some situations that's the case I am sure, but in others I get the impression people are more just not interested in being involved in plot related stuff over day to day character activity.

I have to say that happens for me.

I do appreciate and admire the work that has been done with this server and the staff managed to keep up an impressive world to rp in.
Still, I have lost interest in DM events due to the fact that all events I've been in were mostly waves of mobs that can destroy you unless you are high level with not much rp involved or skill checks or anything.

I do appreciate that with a lot of people it's a total mess, but I had no chance to be involved into a smaller event so far.

I have simply lost interest in DM activity due to the big wagon of players adding up making things a big mess.
So yes, I am one of those players currently not interested.
I do get more fun by RPing with other players right now.

I will say that a minority of the DM related events I've been a part of have been combat-related.

Planehopper echos my sentiments really. Though I will add a bit myself:

Honestly to me? I think we have too much red-tape. Too many bars, too many barriers in place to keep invested players out of making this server a better place.

Hire 5-6 more DM's, make sure they are in the opposite time zone of the average DM that is there now. Cut back on the big world-spanning plots. Make smaller, random, personal plots. Let DM's wander the world like a player, and pick on the randoms out there grinding and playing the game.

The best times I ever had in this server were because I was doing something (Usually ridiculous or evil.) That a DM laughed at or enjoyed and decided to take what I was doing and run with it. Or perhaps I was just with a group and we were out killing mobs and something just happened right in front of us, out of the blue, and we had to go investigate and it was completed within an hour or two. No big mobs or waves, just something small, simple, and with a clear ending that didn't impact the entire server. These little mini-events build camaraderie between players and give them something interesting to talk about at the camp fire later. Half the fun is sharing war stories with others.

D&D and DMing is about creating and going on adventures with people. I feel that the server is currently missing the mark on this aspect, but it definitely didn't in the past. As a person who DM'd for years on NWN1 before joining this server, and who currently DM's D&D almost exclusively, the most fun moments are when you give the players the reigns and simply enhance what they are already doing. Building the groundwork to create these moments of laughter and enjoyment.

make sure they are in the opposite time zone of the average DM that is there now

I'd love it if there was a DM in the Aus/NZ time-zone! I've been playing (off-and-on) for a couple of years and I think I've only ever seen 1 or 2 DM events.

Sure there might only be 10 of us online, but it would definitely help make the place seem a bit more alive if random stuff happened now and then...

Planehopper wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:34 am To answer the "most positive experience and how to see it again" - the heyday of my time here over the last 10 years was when there was a stronger feeling of camaraderie amongst the players. Guilds flourished. Plots were inclusive and encompassing. Roleplay was the focus.

Too often now I can log in (on my primary or one of several established alts) and notice that many of our veteran players are cloistered amongst themselves. Or see folks passing in dungeons and on trails with nary a *nods* or interaction. Plots are kept so private that some of my alts know of things that would be easier accomplished with more involved but they are kept in silos and advanced by the few and the usual.

I spoke with someone who used to log into BG all the time not long ago, this is what they said:

I see people on when I log in, but I dont actually -see- any of them
I can wander around and never run into anyone, which is weird.

I sort of blame guild halls for that.
I never really see anyone hang out at the 'more neutral' rp hubs anymore. Even though a few of the guild halls are pretty much open to the public, some characters aren't going to spend any time there due to old disagreements with certain PCs or just because they have no reason to be there.

As for server direction, I never liked how close we are forced to follow BG cannon. It's this server's biggest advantage and flaw at the same time. Since it's near impossible to have enough DMs to tend to everyone, I'd like to see players have access to more tools and more freedom to do their own thing. Let players play guards, let players play monsters. Let them run for Mayor of Beregost and run the town.... hell, let someone into a high ranking position inside the Fist so that he may punish lawbreakers and control the other Flaming Fist PCs so that they don't abuse their power.

Rask wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:50 pm Planehopper echos my sentiments really. Though I will add a bit myself:

Honestly to me? I think we have too much red-tape. Too many bars, too many barriers in place to keep invested players out of making this server a better place.

Hire 5-6 more DM's, make sure they are in the opposite time zone of the average DM that is there now. Cut back on the big world-spanning plots. Make smaller, random, personal plots. Let DM's wander the world like a player, and pick on the randoms out there grinding and playing the game.

The best times I ever had in this server were because I was doing something (Usually ridiculous or evil.) That a DM laughed at or enjoyed and decided to take what I was doing and run with it. Or perhaps I was just with a group and we were out killing mobs and something just happened right in front of us, out of the blue, and we had to go investigate and it was completed within an hour or two. No big mobs or waves, just something small, simple, and with a clear ending that didn't impact the entire server. These little mini-events build camaraderie between players and give them something interesting to talk about at the camp fire later. Half the fun is sharing war stories with others.

D&D and DMing is about creating and going on adventures with people. I feel that the server is currently missing the mark on this aspect, but it definitely didn't in the past. As a person who DM'd for years on NWN1 before joining this server, and who currently DM's D&D almost exclusively, the most fun moments are when you give the players the reigns and simply enhance what they are already doing. Building the groundwork to create these moments of laughter and enjoyment.

This. So much this. I avoid DM events because they tend to be incredibly laggy. The DM interactions I've had that happened on a small scale were all awesome.

I think there's plenty of server direction in the sense that every staff group (with the exception of QC these days) has a staff leader (or multiple leaders). There's also two campaign coordinators positioned to actively direct the server storyline.

Developmentally, the server design direction document that Steve linked is supposed to be guiding the devs and scripters -- but, naturally, you can't really dictate what volunteers are going to work on, so it's more of a guide than a rule book.

We could certainly use more DMs, and it would be nice if they covered more time zones. But that does require more people to put their hands up to DM. And to have shown themselves they can probably be trusted with the authority and power the DMs have invested in them.

Player culture is always just a reflection of what the people playing right now place value in. To use Steve's words from the other thread, you have to be the change you want to see in the world here. Make your preferred type of RP attractive and engaging for other players. This does require you to be a community leader -- and not everyone wants to do that, has the time for it, knows how to do that, etc.

At the admin level, we are fluxing at the moment, as two long time admins are passing the mantle to two new admins. So that will result in some confusion for senior staff, as there will probably be a shift in focus and priority. Miasmata and Zanniej are not the same people as Maecius and Endelyon. That can be scary, but all players and staff can do there is put faith into our judgment, our training, and your new admins.

I don't know if there's red tape necessarily. The admins do have final say, but on the development side we have been, at least in my not-unbiased opinion, more than generous. I'm not a fan, personally, of everything we've implemented. But I am a fan of letting developers have a say in the development of the server they're working on. Players have something like "red tape" with the DMs -- but that's largely based on the fact that the DMs have more requests for attention than they have the time, energy, and motivation to actively answer. Right now there are 47 player requests filed in the "in progress" player request forum. We do not have 47 active DMs right this second. And that's not even mentioning their plots and campaigns and tech support type work. The DMs put in a lot of time in game and on the forums (I know they do, because we audit their activity), but there's not enough of them to do it all for free for everybody. -- Really, there never has been.

I'm personally impressed with our various staff groups and the efforts they're putting forward right now. I'm sure the critiques given here are valuable, of course, particularly for DMs planning campaigns and wanting to know what people are hungry for in terms of content, but some of the suggestions -- like more DMs in more timezones -- are just not an easy to-do. And require some community buy-in and volunteerism.

But ultimately, I'm grateful that we have both active, involved, and passionate players -- and players who actively volunteer their time as staff. But note in my description of both groups, they're all players here -- everyone's here because they want to be. So I just want to gently remind people to be sure you continue to give the staff a reason to want to play this game too. Unless you're ready to teach yourself their skills and replace them! Because there aren't very many people actively teaching themselves NWScript or the Toolset these days!

Naturally. There's always room for improvements, but not always enough people or time to make them into realities.

Feel welcome to PM me or contact me on Discord once I'm back in town tomorrow if you feel you're being stifled creatively in some way. I'm not going to have that conversation here though, as this is not the best forum for a personal conversation.

Feels like this discussion is unhealthy from my kind of outsider point of view.

As others have said before we should all just do our best to make the server the place we want it to be.

Just how I feel.