TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

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Arcane
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TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Arcane » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:18 pm

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Last edited by Arcane on Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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K'yon Oblodra
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by K'yon Oblodra » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:23 pm

That face makes me so sad XD
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Wyatt » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:42 am

This is why I don't pvp. If pvp comes up with any of my characters I RP my way out. On the rare occasion it isn't possible I just tell the other player to assume they won and we can go from there. I tend to avoid events for the same reason. The combat seems to be based around super builds with 50+ ac and 50% displacement/mirror images along with saves in the high 30's. My characters always get killed instantly, even at level 30, lol. I get it though. It is impossible to balance these encounters. Either the power builds breeze through everything making it moot to even have the RP characters along, or its so challenging that the RP characters are essentially a non factor in the combat.

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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Hoihe » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:13 am

Wyatt wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:42 am
This is why I don't pvp. If pvp comes up with any of my characters I RP my way out. On the rare occasion it isn't possible I just tell the other player to assume they won and we can go from there. I tend to avoid events for the same reason. The combat seems to be based around super builds with 50+ ac and 50% displacement/mirror images along with saves in the high 30's. My characters always get killed instantly, even at level 30, lol. I get it though. It is impossible to balance these encounters. Either the power builds breeze through everything making it moot to even have the RP characters along, or its so challenging that the RP characters are essentially a non factor in the combat.
As if 50 ac was enough >.>. I have 55 AC (57 vs current) on an explicit tank build with MI and get crushed like a fly in a number of events. My build suck at everything else. and apparently at tanking too. This is especially true in swarm dm events. Only way to survice is drink a pot of heal every 3 rounds or have enough burst dmg to kill enemies faster than they can hit you.
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Bobthehero » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:34 am

Burst builds don't work either trust me
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Lockonnow » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:58 am

iam sorry you that youre a afriad to lose you see if you are i na guild it is be more easy to RP PVP and have fun then you will make this server Proud

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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by K'yon Oblodra » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:12 am

PvP is a tricky thing and should be about fun, if you're not enjoying it then what Wyatt does seems like a good route to take.

Another thing one could do if the PvP is supposed to be some RP tool is to kind of discuss what outcome one would like and arrange things to play out in a way that the parties agreed to and want...

I know probably sounds stupid but if its too further a story I'd totally let someone beat my character up in a choreographically arranged fight if a normal fight would just be entirely dumb.

I think this is really an avenue people should consider that have made bad experiences with pvp, haven't delved into it too deep but was just getting in touch with another player in regards to something very similar.

And honestly what's the fun in pvp if you have an outcome that is super one sided anyways. I am just thinking of Hoihe's example, if she maybe has the craziest AC and I as a mage would the just abuse her possibly weak will saves and have her run around for minutes with a fear spell, while slowly... or maybe even fast kill her while she can't do anything.

Really think if we find players that are willing to strike a nice balance between winning and losing regardless of actual pvp abilities this could be a cool thing for storytelling... The only thing that's usually in the way are our egos XD
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Wyatt » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:37 am

Lockonnow wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:58 am
iam sorry you that youre a afriad to lose you see if you are i na guild it is be more easy to RP PVP and have fun then you will make this server Proud
Its not about being afraid to lose, Lock. Its about taking ego out of the pvp. Its amazing how once I tell people that they can just assume that they win, many aren't interested anymore. I guess for some the fun is just the mechanical conquest. I would rather just bypass that and move on to the RP.

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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Lockonnow » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:03 am

Wyatt assume that they win their you can just tell go play PnP no i will see some action iam sorry to say this server kills many thing but thing it is a pnp server not a action computer game

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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Druchii » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:08 am

If you have an RP build I highly recommend not doing PvP outside of situations where you have a rapore with the other party or it's unavoidable as part of an event. Choose your events wisely and you will have more fun. It's an RP server not a PvP server.

I have done my share on NWN1 with both RP and Powerbuilds and personally the latter can be a thrill but also usually leads to drama and immaturity.

Also the average match up is totally pointless unless a arranged duel/spar where you shouldn't be that beat up about losing or an assassination/capture where you should have done your homework. Most times though you wont kill the other pc they will just respawn if not raised. So its overall very meh.i would rather focus on causing anarchy or evil in the game world through npcs and events than trying to kill the unkillable.

There's also a reason PvP rules require an "out" to be presented. Exception is KoS races but thats a sub rule (that i think detracts from RP if anything). Follow them without an ego and you'll avoid fights with PBs. Then you can go do your thing.
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Lambe » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:21 am

If you're not willing to engage in OOC pre/post pvp with the sole reason being "PVP leads to good RP", then I would suggest to slow down, get out of your character for a moment, and ponder how it would affect the other party's rp.

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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by K'yon Oblodra » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:53 am

Lambe wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:21 am
.... and ponder how it would affect the other party's rp.
I think that's just disregarded way too often :) *thumbs up*
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:55 am

My current character is designed for PvP and is equipped with all the needed umd/consumables. The reason is I absolutely don't want to lose any lethal PvPs, that's true. But -why- I don't want to lose them is another question and has nothing to do with ego or satisfying my pvp-mongering fantasies.

My current character didn't lose a single lethal pvp, but my past characters did a lot. Everytime it happens, the scenario is one and only, meaning: "Alright, now I'm slicing your character's throat, leaving them in the dirt and forgetting they existed". In the worst case, they'll also try to bargain over your characters inventory items/bodyparts as a trophy. Such experience is absolutely not what I enjoy, but everytime I bring it up, many people just tell me "don't pvp if you don't wanna lose, blahblah".

My point is the problem here is not that some builds are mechanically stronger than others (it's often just a l2p issue). The problem is victors of PvP often don't care about other side's opinion. "I won so I do what I want" attitude is what makes PvP such frustrating, not powerbuilding. And no, I don't want to hear excuses like "being a bloodthirsty scum is a part of my RP, you don't get it". If it's really about RP, not your ego — then please make sure both parties write this story together.
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by K'yon Oblodra » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:16 am

Yea people should not be forcing anything on the other. Guess there is a weird correlation between building for pvp being harsh in their requests cause of they do build pvp optimised builds they tend to prefer the mechanical aspects of the game.

Not saying anyone that does enjoy the mechanics doesn't like RPing just that the focus often, not always, lie somewhere else.

But yea from what I've read in the past it seems like it's been a problem that people just force their RP onto others. Guess the only thing that would work in that case is being hard about denying them that RP clearly showing that, that it's just not something they can force like that... Not sure if I'd just log off incase someone would overdo it and absolutely not want to cooperate.

Hope I don't get into such situations XD
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Re: TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

Unread post by Hoihe » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am

I for one, if pvp wasnt highly probable to have Kop's described results, with winner almost always trying to demand consequences that make the character impossible to play (maiming without regen, mental trauma, unfixable death), i would definitely be down for pvp encounters.

I have handed over item/gold before and will happily do it again if someone wants something to show for their victory. Just not stuff that basically goes "welp, i guess i cant play my char anymore."


on topic of builds - one thing i noticed in friendly spars that builds that do well in pve and are kind of reputed for a certain quality (impossible to hit for instance, resilient) become moot in pvp. In pve 50+ AC is enough to avoid all but nat20s even in high epic areas (cept for some bosses). PvP? everyone who melees has 40-45 AB. A character that builfs reputation as unyielding defender in pve/events gets splattered in pvp.
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