Let implement Heart's Ease

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Hoihe
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Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Hoihe » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:01 am

Book of Exalted Deeds:

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Beloved of Valarian 3, Cleric 3, Pleasure 3,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature/level
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Heart's ease cures emotional wounds in the same way that heal wipes away physical ones.
The subjects are cured of any fear effect, despair effect (such as the crushing despair spell), or similar mindaffecting condition, excluding charms and compulsions (such as charm person, dominate person, and similar spells).
It removes any lingering psychological effects of torture (including the increased effectiveness of torture devices, as described in the Book of Vile Darkness).
It cures confusion and insanity, restores 2d4 points of Wisdom damage (but not permanent Wisdom drain), and leaves the targets feeling refreshed and at peace.



Purpose: So that using it complies with the rule cited below, and is no longer up for DM interpretation if it is allowed to be used.
PnP/Lore spells
Between players: Spells that do not exist in the game do not exist. Cantrips that do not affect another player are fine, but all other spells do not exist. (this is part of play what is on your sheet)
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Hoihe
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Hoihe » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:24 am

Also this spell!

Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Apostle of Peace 2, Beloved of Valarian 2, Cleric 2,
Components: S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Ease pain immediately removes any lingering effects of pain, including penalties imposed by symbol of pain, angry ache, and similar spells.
It does not heal any damage or other effects not directly related to pain.
If the target creature is under some effect that causes continuing damage, the pain is eased only for a moment.
Ease pain cannot bypass the need for a Concentration check to cast a spell under such circumstances, nor can it allow a creature subject to death by thorns to act normally (since the spell's damage is ongoing).
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

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Deathgrowl
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Deathgrowl » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:04 pm

These don't seem necessary to put in as mechanical spells, unless there is something I'm missing. I'm sure the DMs are accomodating enough to allow the use of these spells when necessary and requested.
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Hoihe
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Hoihe » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:46 pm

Deathgrowl wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:04 pm
These don't seem necessary to put in as mechanical spells, unless there is something I'm missing. I'm sure the DMs are accomodating enough to allow the use of these spells when necessary and requested.
Idea is to remove access to such from discretion of an individual DM, allowing players a rule-permitted magical solution to coping with the harshness of adventuring. Magical solutions mind, that being 2nd and 3rd circle, are abundant per PHB's own description of where to find casters of given spell levels in BG's location.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

Druchii
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Druchii » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:08 am

Not that I've seen many RP the harshness of adventuring very often but being able to readily cure any inconvenient emotion might not be all that great long term.

If it's a RP spell though and you aren't in an event, so long as your immediate RP partners are fine with it is there actually a problem?

Or is this specifically because it has been turned down on actual events in the past - in which case then I get it more?
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Hoihe » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:17 am

Druchii wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:08 am
Not that I've seen many RP the harshness of adventuring very often but being able to readily cure any inconvenient emotion might not be all that great long term.

If it's a RP spell though and you aren't in an event, so long as your immediate RP partners are fine with it is there actually a problem?

Or is this specifically because it has been turned down on actual events in the past - in which case then I get it more?
It's explicitly for taking care of DM events where a DM insists your nat 20 strength roll will cause "permanent pain." This spell would protect from that.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by DM Ghost » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:58 am

I'd post from my player account, but as this is directed at improper DM practices, i post with this one, so no one starts thinking this is a common practice. No DM will enforce incurable, permanent injury, and certainly not without tha player's consent. If this does happen, report it to the HDMs.

And a big problem in general is that people just don't report things, and so it appears that things aren't acted upon. So please, if you have an issue with a DM, report it to the HDMs. If you have an issue with a player, report it to the DM team. Don't hope that someone else does it or we/the HDMs just stumble on the issue ourselves.
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Druchii
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Druchii » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:08 am

I'll leave this here then Hoie given the context and you can bring this up with DMs direct.

Just to round my view off though. I would say it's fair to argue a Restoration spell achieves the same thing if you want it to. But for DM outcomes you should seek DM solutions first and foremost.
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Hoihe » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:09 pm

Druchii wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:08 am
I'll leave this here then Hoie given the context and you can bring this up with DMs direct.

Just to round my view off though. I would say it's fair to argue a Restoration spell achieves the same thing if you want it to. But for DM outcomes you should seek DM solutions first and foremost.
Restoration should yes, but since it's not explicitly spelled out, some might argue for sake of dark fantasy.

This one is explicitly spelled out AND is level 2 (for physical) and level 3 (for sanity-related).

As for going to DMs with it - would be simpler to have non-ambiguous "No thanks" buttons to resolve someone trying to make the setting into dark fantasy that people who don't want it to can ignore, allowing accomodation for all.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Steve » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:14 pm

I was asked to edit my post by moderators.

Why isn’t visiting Temples for blessings IC isn't enough anymore, nor requesting from DMs relief OOC, both which already exist?
Last edited by Steve on Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Druchii » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:26 pm

Personally I like dark fantasy but thats hardly your concern I know. But I don't think that's all that relevant though:

Thing is that when it comes to DM outcomes they are meant to be part of a story. Generally that means finding a solution in said story, which us why I am against the "No thanks" button. If you have a "no thanks" button, then you are nullifying the point of having elements outside your control. Hence better imo to settle the matter direct as a person if something imposed feels unfair or detrimental to your fun OOC.

That said if it's in PnP of course j totally understand why you would like the option. It's just that someone has to take personal time to vet it and then make it a thing mechanically (optional?). I just feel it already exists in the description of restore spells and it's your RP so you can do what you want if it doesn't break lore/immersion.

Basically I just gave you a cure! Yay for me! :dance:
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Hoihe » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:50 pm

Druchii wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:26 pm
Personally I like dark fantasy but thats hardly your concern I know. But I don't think that's all that relevant though:

Thing is that when it comes to DM outcomes they are meant to be part of a story. Generally that means finding a solution in said story, which us why I am against the "No thanks" button. If you have a "no thanks" button, then you are nullifying the point of having elements outside your control. Hence better imo to settle the matter direct as a person if something imposed feels unfair or detrimental to your fun OOC.

That said if it's in PnP of course j totally understand why you would like the option. It's just that someone has to take personal time to vet it and then make it a thing mechanically (optional?). I just feel it already exists in the description of restore spells and it's your RP so you can do what you want if it doesn't break lore/immersion.

Basically I just gave you a cure! Yay for me! :dance:
A DM's story is often like 5% of a player's playtime. I've a friend whose character was stuck with a curse for an entire year due to DM being scarcely active, a curse that ruined that character's existence from ground up.

Crippling physical pain/mutilation/mental trauma will do the same. People say "people never hand out permastrikes", but when a character becomes impossible to play enjoyably because ""consequences"" and non-explicit spell descriptions permitting such, it's de facto the same.

Just recently I wound up overhearing of a DM preventing basic physical injuries and their pain to be alleviated through magic. By introducing spells that explicitly block that, one can easily resolve the matter without having to spend a month in back and forth with HDMs.

One can say "Don't participate in DM events" - a few days back, during low-pop, I was RPing with a bunch of new player. DM came along, dropped a thing about "risk", I inquired and the response wasn't one bit reassuring. Cue everyone I was RPing with heading off for the DM event my character would ICly attend too, but being blocked for not wanting to throw my character in the trash can from them being impossible to play without it being depressing. So from being engaged in RP with new people, I wound up alone. Wound up being forced to log.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Druchii » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:38 pm

Honestly if your concerns come from this much bad experience, I don't think a "no thanks" button is going to help. Also please don't think I am trying to argue or cut down your idea.

I think you need to settle your issues with the HDMs or simply participate selectively because you know you don't see eye-to-eye with certain people. One would hope its a minority.

I don't believe implementing a "No Thanks" button is going to solve the root cause of this. If effect X comes into play, presumably it comes in when roleplay is going on - speak to the DM then and there. If there is a problem, screenshot and report - if you feel very strongly about it, and lets argue that its this situation, Restore and ignore it post-event until the matter is settled OOC.

If a DM doesnt want your new spell to apply for reasons X, Y, Z of their plot, do you think it will matter? If someone in power was so unreasonable as to totally ignore your feelings and your argument about how to solve something, and offers no solution themselves that fairs or enjoyable... you have bigger problems than the mechanics of NWN2.

Can I offer that you might be placing more stringent limitations on what you "must" do because you have assumed everyone will criticize, or force, you to do it if not?

As Ghost said, this seems like a grievance and thats best settled directly, meanwhile pop that Restore for the sake of the remaining 95% of YOUR story and go have fun.

The solution is already in front of you and I think you should just take it. It's going to be better than waiting for a custom spell implementation that offers you no guarantees other than "but the spell description says so".

Hell there is nothing stopping you literally RPing a fade-to-black that you went to a Temple, sought audience with a High Priest and had Greater Restoration cast on you - cures the pain. I doubt you'll highly that you'll be pulled aside and reprimanded. If you are, file grievance.

Greater Restoration cures basically everything and is used for curing curses and lost levels - the pain from over-exertion of your muscles or even breaking bones will be cured like that *snaps fingers* by comparison.
Last edited by Druchii on Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Sputnik » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:53 pm

Are we really getting to the point where we need fictional therapists to treat fictional traumas that happened to fictional characters?! :lol:
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Re: Let implement Heart's Ease

Unread post by Druchii » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:55 pm

Sputnik wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:53 pm
Are we really getting to the point where we need fictional therapists to treat fictional traumas that happened to fictional characters?! :lol:
Only just realised you are on a roleplay server did you?

;)

Edit: That said.. good point.

What would we implement exactly?

Unless this topic shifts to vetting and approving "RP-only" spells, there's nothing in what you described that is represented in the game without a natural cure. What would it Heart's Ease counteract that exists in NWN2 without a natural counter? In PnP things are less rigid and stuff is made out of thin air sometimes. If we put something into the actual game, there's got to be a way to code it.

Are you expected to treat the pain like ability score reduction? Thats already curable.

So are lost levels, lowered saves, reduced ab, etc. There's actually nothing to strictly implement - we can only agree to accept the idea that your character, whoever is t is, can cure people's emotional and physical pain. That exists by having healing spells.
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