Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

This might be an unpopular opinion for some, but I am going to open this discussion anyways. This might come out as a bunch of ideas at once but whatever.

I think the server as it stands, has too many areas for the population that currently stands on the server.

I know once upon a time we used to have 70+ players on pretty much all the time, world was alive and we had players everywhere, we didnt have enough space ! Well, that time has (unfortunately.) seemed to pass. We are struggling now to hit above 35-40 people. This is still a fairly healthy amount for a NWN2 server, especially now that NWN EE is out, but I think the server simply has too many places, too many roadways, too many hidey-holes!

This spreads the now smaller player base across a much larger area. There used to be times when you would constantly run into conflict or things happening just by walking around the server and encountering other players but I find this rarely happens anymore. Everyone is either hiding in their clubhouses, or in most cases, is so spread out from each other they hardly ever come into contact with one another.

I think that the team should take a good, hard look at the areas we have on the server, and which ones are travelled often, and which ones languish unused, and we should start pruning. Not just removing areas either, but making small tweaks to the layouts we already have to facilitate a "hub" or two. It used to be that that "hub" was the camp outside of the bridge near BG, you ran into half-dozen people at any given time during the day, but that was because back then there were far fewer spots like it, which facilitated it as a common area of gathering for social and RP.

With how small the population is becoming, its more important than ever that we push things to create natural gathering spaces, or else new players, which are few and far between these days, will get bored and leave, as they so rarely encounter other people as it is right now. I love the areas the server has, but at this point, do we really need them all anymore? And the ones we do keep, a little bit of love in the right places will make it so common areas become more traveled.

One of my main ideas for this, as a small start, is to remove ideally, or reduce spawns and summons on the roads between Baldurs Gate > FAI > Candlekeep > Beregost.

Make all the spawns on these roads CR1 or 2, maybe a couple wolves, or animals ect, or preferably, non hostile small animals and no hostiles at all. Keep the goblins, the gnolls, the giants ect, in their respective dungeons and caves. This will facilitate travel for new or lower level players, and also RP on the roads without being harassed by random spawns. I mean, it is already a bit jarring when you're just walking with a friend to Candlekeep and 5 beetles and a giant start randomly attacking everyone who is going down the road. We have areas to grind in and dungeons to explore, and forests full of orcs or plains full of undead. These common travel areas should be much safer than they are, especially with how many times higher level players have "cleared them out".

What does everyone else think?

chambordini wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:10 pm I want a game world where I can get lost in, being able to explore places I've never seen before in a frequent basis. And with existing places that can change often both by players and other things.


I think if we shrink and reduce with better gameplay in mind we're shooting ourselves in the foot long term.

I agree with this. As a player who just returned to the game not so long ago, it was the living breathing world that sucked me in. I remember just exploring areas with a group of also new to the server friends and it was that sense of heading into the unknown that sucked us all in. It felt like a D&D game more than an MMO.

More areas that many of us haven't seen before would also go a long way towards making things feel fresh again.

I tend to agree with the OP on most of their points. Given the fluctuating population trends over the last 6 months, I think the absolute most important thing that should be focused on is devising ways to facilitate more role-play(and I'm not just talking about from a design standpoint). Maybe the ideas presented above would help in that regard, maybe not, but I am totally on board with trying new ways to bring players together.

Rask wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:06 pm I think the server as it stands, has too many areas for the population that currently stands on the server.

On the one hand, I agree with you here... there are soooo many areas that almost never get used it's not even funny. Small example: all those cave interiors near the wyverns, and a few around Greenest, most of which are one or two rooms with nothing to interact with except a torch or two. Why...?

On the other hand, perhaps there's no point in removing them, considering groups of players will just continue to congregate in popular grinding/socializing spots anyways.

Everyone is either hiding in their clubhouses, or in most cases, is so spread out from each other they hardly ever come into contact with one another.

I think this is more of a preference thing than anything else. Players are going to gravitate towards certain areas based on who they're RP'ing or XP'ing with. I just looked at the scry, and the locations of players are pretty much on par with the current popular spots: Soubar/Northern tradeway, Darius estate, FAI, and assorted XP'ers sprinkled around the UD and surface hunting areas. I'm not sure if reducing the distance between, say, the wyvern grind spot and Soubar is really going to change anything. Personally, I like the huge distance from the northern areas to the southern ones. What I don't like is what you mentioned below about the spawns, but we'll get to that in a bit.

It used to be that that "hub" was the camp outside of the bridge near BG, you ran into half-dozen people at any given time during the day, but that was because back then there were far fewer spots like it, which facilitated it as a common area of gathering for social and RP.

It's funny how the "RP" hub has changed over the years. It went from the bridge camp you mentioned, then it was the FAI for years, and now it's the Farmlands campfire. There's almost always a group of players camped out at Boarskyr Bridge, or Northern tradeway, and quite often you'll also find players near the campfire up the hill from the wyverns, but that is used more a rest stop for groups in between bouts of circle grinding. Greenest also frequently has players gathering in the settlement. All of these areas are relatively accessible to all characters as is(except maybe the campfire near the wyverns), it's just that, perhaps, each "hub" location seems to cater to different player groups. (Personally... unless 2 or 3 characters are sitting there that my toon knows, I tend to avoid campfire RP, or large social gatherings like the plague. For numerous reasons...)

One of my main ideas for this, as a small start, is to remove ideally, or reduce spawns and summons on the roads between Baldurs Gate > FAI > Candlekeep > Beregost.

Make all the spawns on these roads CR1 or 2, maybe a couple wolves, or animals ect, or preferably, non hostile small animals and no hostiles at all. Keep the goblins, the gnolls, the giants ect, in their respective dungeons and caves. This will facilitate travel for new or lower level players, and also RP on the roads without being harassed by random spawns. I mean, it is already a bit jarring when you're just walking with a friend to Candlekeep and 5 beetles and a giant start randomly attacking everyone who is going down the road. We have areas to grind in and dungeons to explore, and forests full of orcs or plains full of undead. These common travel areas should be much safer than they are, especially with how many times higher level players have "cleared them out".

I am with you 10000000% on this one. Traveling down the northern roads, Lions Way, or the area north of Beregost(and to a lesser degreee the tradeway south of BG) is absolutely tedious. I'm not sure if the global spawn rate was upped in the last year, but it totally seems like it. There is nothing enjoyable about constantly getting swarmed by dozens of beetles, ogres, kobolds, or goblins while walking through these areas. Trying to RP with your traveling cohorts as you walk the roads from the FAI to Beregost? Forget about it... it's literally impossible to type out a complete sentence before you'll be attacked. It's jarring, as you said, and detrimental to RP... more often than not you'll see characters blitzing through these areas as fast as possible, likely in an attempt to not get bogged down by umpteen goblins on their way from point A to B.

If anything, and as far as outdoor areas with roads are concerned, I would much rather monsters spawn/congregate near lairs instead of all over the place. The gnoll lair on Lions way is a perfect example. The goblins should, likewise, populate more heavily around only the mine north of Beregost, or on top of the hill above the mine. Sprinkle a few imps outside the overgrown chapel while you're at it. And relegate any ogres and beetles to the far outskirts, if at all. Same goes for the road from BG to Soubar... holy fricken spawns! The area is FAR too saturated by vampire bats, bugbears, goblin riders, and mountain lions, and needs to be toned down. Stick a bugbear lair out there away from the road, have the bugbears guard it, put the bats near the water cave, and ditch the rest in favor of a wolf or two... better still? Put in a few of those ambush encounters. Those are WAY more fun than constantly being swarmed by the over-active monster generator.

chambordini wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:10 pm I want a game world where I can get lost in, being able to explore places I've never seen before in a frequent basis. And with existing places that can change often both by players and other things.


I think if we shrink and reduce with better gameplay in mind we're shooting ourselves in the foot long term.

Areas can always be re-added, correct? Right now, ehh... I don't think the current population trends justify expansion. We have lots of great areas as is... for example: The Ulgoths pirate caves... whyyyy does no-one go there? That map is bloody amazing(apart from some borked walkmesh near the encounter), and challenging. I would much rather see areas like this tweaked and made more enticing than adding more areas that might also just end up collecting dust.

Ulgoth's Beard cave has an associated quest which is a draw if you've got a way of completing it in a timely manner. And it has loot chests. It's a great area all things considered and in the end is pretty good challenge if you're completing it 100%.

As for OP I tend to solo a lot and don't see a need to be more tightly knit. I hesitate to mention scry as a stop-gap as it's meta-gamey to find people that way. Anyway bigger and more areas to explore is my preference. Sometimes it's nice to have room to be away from everyone, too, as a certain type of adventurer.

I also think all the beetles and ogres swamping the Lions Way is s bit silly. Move spawns away from the road. Have occasional dangerous random spawn attackers. Do the same for the bridge and area just outside Soubar. Have a few more areas with minimal or no spawns. Some stretches of road and forest that are normally safe.

Overall I don’t think we need to reduce the size of the server but some areas seem superfluous. Do we need so many racial starter areas? Get rid of EDE and Kraak Helzak, maybe Doron.

Make dungeons bigger. Ideally some more long dungeons like Hilltop and Durlags.

I would also be inclined to get rid of guild houses unless they are open ones

Also as Chambo mentions I also prefer more of a 1:1 representation of the world as far as is possible

Max Hatchet wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:20 am I also think all the beetles and ogres swamping the Lions Way is s bit silly. Move spawns away from the road. Have occasional dangerous random spawn attackers. Do the same for the bridge and area just outside Soubar. Have a few more areas with minimal or no spawns. Some stretches of road and forest that are normally safe.

Overall I don’t think we need to reduce the size of the server but some areas seem superfluous. Do we need so many racial starter areas? Get rid of EDE and Kraak Helzak, maybe Doron.

Make dungeons bigger. Ideally some more long dungeons like Hilltop and Durlags.

I would also be inclined to get rid of guild houses unless they are open ones

Also as Chambo mentions I also prefer more of a 1:1 representation of the world as far as is possible

How about no.

Doron Amar, En Dharasha everae provide a much needed respite from the massive amount of evil/morally grey characters, and also act as a sieve to ensure players who make fun of "slice of life" or filler rp arent around to harrass people.

Id much rather we have more wilderness areas where you dont get jumped by spawns evrry few moments or get randomly ran into.

We used to have reaching wood, we used to have southern sharp teeth, the flaming fist fort area, the chiontar to ulgoth's.

Now? I cant think of any proper wilderness area.

Even the misty forest place before EDE is currently occupied by silver rose knight encampment.


And guild houses? One of the few places without an
overabundance of evil or "totally not evil but neutral" characters.

Hoihe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:36 am Doron Amar, En Dharasha everae provide a much needed respite from the massive amount of evil/morally grey characters, and also act as a sieve to ensure players who make fun of "slice of life" or filler rp arent around to harrass people.

Not to mention that these are server lore-heavy areas that stand as a result of YEARS worth of hard work and dedicated roleplay. I'm pretty sure the suggestion made to remove them was made either out of sheer ignorance, or as an attempt at trolling.

As for guild halls, there are certainly a few that could be considered for removal due to being unused(Coven of Darkness, Dead Crows Hideout[turn 'em into dungeons!] and that place near CK... I think it's empty?). Removing other guild halls based on them not being open to the public(if that's what was really being suggested? And, if so... just, uhh... derp) is simply not worthy of a rebuttal.

Next!

Bigger is better and more is more. More dungeons please. And bring back The Sandwitch quest.

Maybe hire some actors to play in the under dark or something...its crazy the place is empty instead of packed.

My main (30th lvl) is a wood elf ‘guardian’ and resident of EDE but i hardly ever go there. And it’s too far away and not fully open to other players.

I’ve been in Kraak many times and only once saw a dwarf player in there (he only logged in cos he saw us in there)

These two areas are a waste IMO

OK, Doron is used but I think all areas like this should be questioned.

We don’t need racial starter areas and they either just fracture the player base if they are used or they aren’t used

The trouble with guild halls is their use goes up and down depending on guild activity. Like Church of Mystra is inactive.

How many of the guild halls are being used regularly?

How many more dungeons could we have if the inactive ones were removed?

LazyTrain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:17 pm
Unfortunately, those dungeons also require builders to make them, so even if we strike down 8 inactive guild halls, you're probably not getting 8 dungeons until way, way, way, way later.

This thread is about making changes to the server and what areas could be removed and replaced with other types of areas? I am making suggestions as to this.

What does ‘more spots to grind’ mean? I don’t grind I adventure. It seems weird that as an area designer you dismiss dungeons as just ‘grind spots’.

The OP is about making the smaller player base less fragmented

It's true: don't let Areas go to waste!

So if you're complaining, make something up so that the Areas do get used !!!

Then they're not wasted at all.

It's a much better plan than posting ignorance.

Steve wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:26 pm It's true: don't let Areas go to waste!

So if you're complaining, make something up so that the Areas do get used !!!

Then they're not wasted at all.

It's a much better plan than posting ignorance.

Who is complaining? We are discussing. Is that allowed?

The OP has raised some interesting points that some of us are trying to address

I agree with everything Chambo said except splitting into multiple servers because the player base is down

Tekill wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:43 pm Bigger is better and more is more. More dungeons please. And bring back The Sandwitch quest.

Maybe hire some actors to play in the under dark or something...its crazy the place is empty instead of packed.

+1. Bring back the sandwitch quest. The world is missing the flavor. I didn't know the bureau had taken it out.