TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYER RESOURCE USE

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Max Hatchet
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TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYER RESOURCE USE

Unread post by Max Hatchet » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:57 am

TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING on an rp persistent world - an attempt to bring about understanding and reconciliation

Are there only two styles of roleplayer? Maybe not. There appear to me to be two styles - two opposites. Most of us dont really sit at each opposite. Most of us mix and match the two and like both styles but may have a tendency towards one or the other. Both styles tend to use different resources on the server which leads to argument about these resources. One style is probably more vocal on discord and forum. The other style is made up mostly of people who tend to interact less on the server media.

The more extreme of each style could probably do with some understanding of the other - without recrimination or need for personal insults or comments. I kind of feel there is not much recognition of these two separate approaches. So please critique what i'm saying and correct me where you think i am wrong.


1. STATIC RPERS
These are the people sitting around fires for long periods. Or rping in guild halls. At their extreme case they will 'level up' to 30th lvl as quickly as possible. They will 'grind' levels' in dungeons and then gain rp experience while static. Altho on servers without rp experience they will follow the same pattern - lvl up then static rp. Most static RPers will be guild members and many will lobby for private guild areas on the server where they can rp with their preferred group of players.
These people are more likely to only have one or just two or three characters.

2. ADVENTURE RPERS
These people walk through dungeons and roleplay while adventuring. They don't like the Xvart area or the Wyvern very much and get bored easily if forced to go there ;). They don't call adventuring 'grinding' and regard it as a bit of an insult if people suggest they are 'just grinding'. Very often they are not guild members and don't use private guild areas. They would probably like more dungeons or for the dungeons to be changed or have more random encounters. They are something of a silent minority - or majority? As they are not guild members they are rarely involved in DM events. They don't tend to expect DM events.
These people are likely to have more than two or three characters or maybe more than a dozen.

I would just reiterate many people do both these things.

Of the four regular (nearly every day) players i have played with most over the last two or three years two are definitely in Type 2 - they are virtually in no guilds at all and never go to private guild areas and don't expect DM interaction. The other two are defintely Type 1 and spend a lot of time in private guild areas. One of those guilds has a lot of DM action and one doesnt. I have always said to new players that if they want DM interaction they should join a guild. We don't have a lot of DMs and guilds are a good way to get involved.

I am definitely a mixture of the two. But probably 70-80% type 2. 20-30% Type 1. I have one 30th lvl character who is a member of one guild. One 29th a member of another guild. I had another 30th lvl who was a member of another guild but retired. Another 25th lvl a member of another guild. One 22nd character a member of another guild. All five of these guilds have been very quiet 90% of the time for the last year. I have searched for rp in guilds but i do wonder if there are too many guilds?

So lets try and understand the different needs of these two often overlapping groups and maybe try and bring them together a bit more?
Last edited by Max Hatchet on Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:36 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Zaelphion » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:50 am

They don't like the Xvart area or the Wyvern very much and get bored easily if forced to go there ;).
I hate doing it, I am definately a type 2 if we want to generalize, but it cant be helped. In a server where people throws 9th circle spells like it's nothing, and DM events have +49 attack rolls on mobs... you either do that or be bad for a LONG, LONG time.
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by DaloLorn » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:15 am

Zaelphion wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:50 am
They don't like the Xvart area or the Wyvern very much and get bored easily if forced to go there ;).
I hate doing it, I am definately a type 2 if we want to generalize, but it cant be helped. In a server where people throws 9th circle spells like it's nothing, and DM events have +49 attack rolls on mobs... you either do that or be bad for a LONG, LONG time.
Let's not forget the fact that you couldn't possibly hit level 30 just by visiting each zone once, either. (Heck, any such plan starts to come apart around level 10 or so.)
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Max Hatchet » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:33 am

DaloLorn wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:15 am
Zaelphion wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:50 am
They don't like the Xvart area or the Wyvern very much and get bored easily if forced to go there ;).
I hate doing it, I am definately a type 2 if we want to generalize, but it cant be helped. In a server where people throws 9th circle spells like it's nothing, and DM events have +49 attack rolls on mobs... you either do that or be bad for a LONG, LONG time.
Let's not forget the fact that you couldn't possibly hit level 30 just by visiting each zone once, either. (Heck, any such plan starts to come apart around level 10 or so.)
I’ve tried that too :)

Not sure what the cut off is :)
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by kersplunk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:49 am

I would consider myself a blend of the two types as well, although if I had to choose one, I might lean towards being a Type 1. I play these types of games primarily for the IC interaction and the emergent storylines that grow out of it. I'm not very good at (possibly due to lack of interest) playing to "win" at D&D, that is to say, optimising my character builds for maximum combat potential. I tend to come up with concepts and then try to build it within the bounds of the system. As you can imagine, this approach can't compete well with people who are far better at planning their builds than I am, but I still enjoy doing it because, to me, it makes my character's feel more like real people rather than a streamlined set of statistics that I slap a pseudo-personality onto.

I tend to do in game what makes the most sense for my character's current situation and mood. If that means sitting around at a bar for hours, I don't shy away from it. And just the same, if it means travelling to a dungeon and working my way through with a small group and roleplaying through the experience, I have just as much fun doing that, too. Let's face it - NWN is very heavily built around combat and dungeon diving (but mostly combat).

What I don't like doing, however, is going with groups that charge at blinding speed through an area without any in-character interaction at all. I get bored and/or aggravated doing that *very* quickly.

I also tend to prefer smaller groups where there are more opportunities to develop connections (good or bad) with other PCs without being overwhelmed by a dozen ongoing independent interactions executed by a bunch of other players with different typing speeds, RP styles, and language preferences.

The result of my preferences is naturally that I tend to progress a bit slower than others in terms of XP, equipment, and net power gain, but I'm okay with that as long as I'm still having fun. Which, most of the time, I am.

Of course, these are my personal preferences, and I don't mean to detract from anyone else's preferred playing style. Which, I think, is the point of this thread. ☺️
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Steve » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:55 am

You can, however, make it to Level 30 by using Areas only once per Level.

I’d also speculate that, if you played in a duo or threesome with dedication, and considering that in this group it’s possible to earn 7k experience in an Area before the mobs “run away from you,” there are enough Areas to at least get to Level 24-25 before you cannot earn XP fast enough in the timer before mobs run off.

Nonetheless, you’d have to be a certain Type of Player not listed in the OP to subject yourself to this “project.”

Related to the OP, I’d argue that the reason you see only these 2 types in general is because the game and this Server is really not rewarding to low level RP. Let’s face it: no one gets excited anymore over surviving a bandit ambush on the Tradeway. No one can act Goodly or Badly without getting mechanically rofflestomped because the Server caters to far too wide a Level spread. D&D was never designed to be this way—3-5 Level spread MAX—thus either one reaches the “endgame” then relaxes into chat room mode, or they constantly play Builds because leveling is so freaking easy and chat room mode is not “adventuring,” which is also what D&D has always been about.

If we accept the facts that the game and the Server are both fundamentally flawed, and nothing will change either, at least you play with what you got. And if that makes you happy, you stay. If it frustrates a person, they leave pretty soon. Of course, there is also the third type that just suffers through the (#2)! :roll:
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Mythic Revenant » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:22 am

Hmm... I agree and disagree on several aspects. Although I do agree that within the confines of the mechanical system that is Neverwinter Nights 2, it is far more combat-oriented and to some degree, so is D&D. However, to pigeon-hole D&D as just a combat simulator is missing the mark by a long shot, in my humble opinion. D&D is about the story. That is all. Everything else is fluff. Yes, does it feel good to roflstomp creatures or dungeons or the like? Absolutely. But I'm of the mind that if you min-max characters with god-tier stats and make sure each class you take compliments PvE or PvP interactions, then, personally, it's missing the entire idea behind RP and D&D. What story are you telling? If it's one of just some badass dude that takes five classes of vastly different ideologies and backgrounds and training just to "make it premium", then, cool. Go for it. I don't find that fun.

I design characters around an idea. A vague one to start. What is he like? Where did he grow up? Certain influences? Once I have a baseline, I run with it, and allow IC interactions and character building to take over. Artorias could have easily become a Zhent on first inception. However, by a stroke of luck, he met Amora and ran into Oth and it sort of flourished from there. He has his own personality that sometimes clashes with those he regards as close friends, but this friction is what makes it fun. He's an archmage, arguably incredibly powerful in an RP sense. But he gets curb stomped in even low teen CR areas because of how the server is. It caters to min-maxers. Just the way of it. He's got stupid low spot because it doesn't fit to have high spot.

Now, to the main question, type 1 or 2? I'm more of a hardcore RPer. Artorias does delve into dungeons, but there is always a reason. Perhaps he needs income, even tho he hates such a one dimensional reason. My favorite is when there is a real IC reason. Durlag's and Ulcaster's, as an example. Both of these hold very special places to him... And now the cave in Speartop, and I'm sure there are TONS of other places that I've yet to discover. Am I rushing to discover them? Hell no. I want to savor it. I want it to feel organic. I try not to run through dungeons when I am crawling through them, and prefer to RP with my group, but I also sometimes DO run through, because I find it very... non-stimulating. Yaaaaay, I just killed my 354235th mob... Joy...

I'd rather spend 3 hours in the library at Ulcaster's with Oth or someone else and just RP looking through tomes, talking philosophy and deities and research... Or, hell, even just about girl problems. :P

That's just my 2 cents.

Oh, and Artorias is my only character. Take that as you will.

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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by kersplunk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:43 am

MythicRevenant said it better than I did. 😜
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Hoihe » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:18 am

I would argue that "two styles" is not a sufficient descriptor. I have made a post about such around a year ago.

I would instead argue the following: at least 4 styles, each pair on its own axis. Perhaps even eight or ten!

I would rephrase your presented style from "Static" "adventuring" to:

Action vs Social.

Does that specific player prefer to engage in adventuring and combat, or intrigue and more "soft" approaches?

This affects whether or not they'll go out of their way to find IC justifications to go adventuring or are fine with relying on organic developments.

Experience/sensation vs Story

Does that player play to tell a story, or experience something through roleplay?

This affects how attached they are to long term characters and concept, be it their own or another's.

Dark vs Bright

Whether it be story or experience, does the player prefer uplifting and hopeful things or "everything is bad" as their narrative/experience?

Epic vs Mundane

Whether it be for action or social matters, does the individual prefer characters who have the strength to get things done heroically without there being a massive sacrifice, or do they prefer characters who are just another average joe off the street that must sacrifice everything even for minimal success.

Special cases vs slice of life
Whether it be for experience or story, does the player prefer to only focus on specific, usually heroic/supernatural elements of the character, or prefers to explore their entire life.

Special case is: "I am interested in the story of a powerful archmage that dominates/uplifts others! I don't care about how they spend their time when not planning world domination/saving the world." "I want to experience the power fantasy of being a powerful heroic/feared knight/marauder."

Slice of life case is: "I care more for how the everyday life of my character goes over grand special goals or their moments of heroism for my story." "I want to experience what it's like to live like a scholar of Candlekeep."




I would for one define myself as a player who plays almost exclusively for the experience, preferring bright experiences over dark, and I look to experience the life of a powerful character with the means to change the world for the better through both swordplay and diplomacy.

Which translates to: I prefer to only do dungeons that make IC sense to do, but I will go out of my way to try to justify some other dungeons if it means I get to experience the more heroic aspects of my character over just staying in peaceful lands and focusing on purely IC-justified dungeons. I however avoid grinding, and find even occasions that feel like grinding, even if it ICly makes sense, to be a rather un-fun occasion. Ideally, I prefer RP focused around what an elven woman does day to day and what a (lazy) scholar would do day to day. To me, this is more securely provided through guilds and guild halls over random encounters with people. Especially as random encounters with people might wind up encouraging dark experiences which I prefer to avoid.
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by krighaur » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:43 am

Why put player into compartments ? This hypothesis forget that most player must change the idea they had of their PC and their RP when they encounter the reality of the server.

To explain I will take my main character. I created her with a solid RP justification in mind, I wanted her to participate in the life of the region ... BUT .... problems

- First I created her without knowing the server and I realized rapidly that she is in a "niche" which will cut her from most active factions
- Second my IRL life make that I miss all large events : I have been at the start of four events related to the main plot of the server, alas I left each soon because it was time to go to bed ... result is no rewards, something I can live with, but more important no action and no renown which is more annoying

So I must adapt my play and look at what is left, and was not what I wanted : kill monsters (which is boring) and talk around a fire. Does that put me in a category. Yes, but none of the described one, it's the category of the players who try to RP and stay in spite they have no chance to be involved.
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Zaelphion » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:50 am

I dont think the OP really wanted to summarize every aspect of RP in two branches of people and that's it.
That would be naive, no need to take this too seriously with huge walls of text (and oh man, do I hate reading those? I do).
And of course, when there are 2 extremes, there is wide world of things in between.

What I wanted to say is just, I love being all RP focused but at the same time I feel the urge to reach a high level just because it's so damn common.
So I must adapt my play and look at what is left, and was not what I wanted : kill monsters (which is boring) and talk around a fire. Does that put me in a category. Yes, but none of the described one, it's the category of the players who try to RP and stay in spite they have no chance to be involved.
And, about the above, that category is larger than you'd think. I've seen many players doing excellent RP that had no involvement whatsoever with any plot, story or guild, and personally I think that it shouldnt be their effort to try and get involved but it should be the server embracing that kind of player.
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by DaloLorn » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:51 am

TBH, I don't really see myself as being either one of those groups either. I adopt their behaviors when it's appropriate, but generally speaking, I follow this list of priorities:
  1. Whatever progresses any existing character arcs. (This is why Caili spends so much time around Elsinan, why Jando runs around with Xyrionna, etc.)
  2. Whatever feasibly gets a character into a crowd that might be of interest to them. (Mainda likes Tycho for his enthusiasm to blindly charge at whatever obstacles are standing between her and her next payday, Kana has taken to going on expeditions with her fellow ORHers...)
  3. Whatever gets a character into a crowd of similar level and territorial preferences, if any. (This latter part disqualifies Mainda from most slaughter parties - there's no money in mindlessly massacring xvarts or wyverns - and is also responsible for such things as my roster's typical reluctance to venture into sewers or Ollandor's inability to get a level if his life depends on it.)
Often, unless I'm really engaged with a given character at the time, I will refuse to pay too much attention to item 3 without a supporting argument from items 1 or 2. As such, if a character fails to get some kind of support on the basis of those priorities, I'll usually mothball them. (Shali got mothballed for entirely different reasons, but I'm hoping to pull her back in sometime soon.)

As for how I create a character... It varies. Wildly.

Some characters were created as "this seems like a fun build to try out, let's see what personality might fit" - that's how I got Mard, Cald, and Jando. Others were created following a "this looks like an interesting concept, what kind of build might work for them?" thought process; this yielded Shali, Ollandor, Siril, Kana... Others still, such as Lamir, Ilhara, or Amaetha, were created in a single stroke, build and concept flowing from each other without any clear chronological separation between the two. (This last one most commonly occurs with a character who is uniquely identified by their build's most prominent characteristics, like Am's identity as a treehugging healer and caretaker. :P)

… Aaand, since I've been beaten to the punch for the third time since I started writing this post, I'm gonna see if I can map myself on Hoihe's scale...

Action/Social: I don't think I have any real preference. As long as I'm doing something beyond mindlessly running through a dungeon or staring at other people's conversations, I tend to be comfortable.

Experience/Story: I'd say it's a 40/60 split. I do tend to get bored if there's no long-term story involving a character - even if that story mostly puts them as someone else's sidekick - but "tell a story" seems to evoke a linear progression from A to B, when many of my characters' stories tend to be malleable in a manner similar to what Mythic described with Artorias. (Except my characters are usually not the blank slate he described Art as, so there's still some level of direction.)

Dark/Bright: Dunno. On one hand, I have consistently underestimated the server's capability to keep Shali and Caili's spirits up - whenever either of them was feeling sorry for herself, someone managed to completely undo her demoralization. On the other hand, at least two of my PCs are fervently devoted to hopeless causes which are causing and/or will cause them a great deal of undue suffering, accompanied by significant physical and/or psychological harm. (Interestingly, both of the ones I'm certain of seem to involve a romantic component... :think: I suppose Siril's quest to create a new Illefarn also counts as a hopeless cause, but that guy has been mothballed so hard, I don't know if he'll ever return.)

Epic/Mundane: Again, not clear. While none of my PCs' fates are set in stone, some of them are designed to probably fail at their primary goals, and others are designed to probably succeed. Most are designed to have a fair chance of either, unless their goals are so loosely defined that one outcome or the other is inevitably more likely. (Like Krighaur's, my PCs consistently fail to influence the server story in any real fashion, so any goals related to this are doomed. Like Zael, this has driven me to seek alternative goals. Also: STOP NINJAING ME ALREADY! THAT WAS TWICE IN ONE LINE! :evil:)

Special cases/Slice of life: I'd put it down as an 80/20 split. I mean, come on. I have a roster of over a dozen PCs, half of which already get way too little attention from me. I have college. I don't get to interact with interesting PCs as often as I'd like. Why on Earth would I dedicate a large chunk of my limited uptime to repeating their daily routine ad infinitum?
Last edited by DaloLorn on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by LazyTrain » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 pm

Yeah I don't fall into either of those categories either. I do both, mix it up frequently, so you can't really say someone falls into one of the two. While it's a simple two-option format, you can strip down and boil away most things to X or Y, but there are way too many variables for X and Y to ever be accurate. I only have the one character that I actively RP, Arorn, so I can safely say you probably can't stick most people with one of those tags.

Something something rushing to level 30, something something passively rping, something something people claiming to do all their stuff through RP while OOC hidden grinding, lot's of things to talk/discuss/aruge about here though.

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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Ewe » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 pm

Max, I think your premise has fundamental flaws.

First of all you write "THE TWO STYLES" as if there are only two boxes. This premise is most certainly not true.

Also, categorizing players and then feigning that you are on our side and then raising a concern that there's an issue where they don't overlap and desperately need our help to resolve... well this is finding an issue where none exists, it's a type of trolling called "concern trolling."

Lastly, your labels don't even make sense. At least make it more believable like static versus dynamic.

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Re: THE TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYING

Unread post by Steve » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:15 pm

I'll add, ask yourself if BGTSCC would be a better gaming experience if we all started our PCs at Level 30? Try and answer it with a simple Yes or No.

If the answer is Yes, then you will want to get your PC to Level 30 as soon as possible. Luckily, there exists both fast AND slow ways to do this, on each individuals time and energy investment(s). And then once you reach Level 30 with your PC, you have some satisfaction. Do whatever you like! Heck, you can even STILL gain XP, just for kicks.

If the answer is No, then you can find satisfaction at whatever Level your PC is, and with 99% of Types of RP we can imagine (with the 1% being ERP that is against Server Rules). Satisfaction is still dependent on RL time and energy you can invest, yet, any time and energy invested can return RP or XP, and sometimes both!

Maybe the better question to ask, or a problem to pose, is: "What types of Role-playing is not possible on BGTSCC?" And as well, the question: "What types of Role-playing are least supported, that the Playerbase is looking for?"
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