What's a good AC?

[qwertyh88]

I am thinking of building a barbarian that can solo balor/dracolich.

The question essentially come down to Frenzy Rage or Standard Rage?

Frenzy Rage nets me 61 AC, 5 Reflect Saves
or
Standard Rage nets 57 AC, 90 hp (+3 con item w/o rage), 3 Fort Saves (+3 con item) and 12 Will saves (+3 con item), +2 Regen

If my math is right, the 4 AC difference is EPIC Frenzy Rage +5, -2 for shield, and +1 extra with Athktatlan Triparite from the Extra attack lost.

Is there a noticeable difference with 61AC vs 57 AC? Because if it is not, I would rather go standard rage + indomintable soul & make my WILL save 99.75% of the times..

Bonus question. Does Athktatlan Triparite work with Expose Weakness. I know it doesn't work with combat style feats (e.g. Sembian Fencing). But not sure what Expose weakness is considered as.

Thanks.

[AC81]

81.

[Pajutek]

From my experience having more AC(in 60s) range Will ensue your safety in epic areas.
You can overcome your saves with items and UMD but having your head bashed by balor isnt fun and games.
Im by no means a pro Player but my vote would be for more AC.

[DM Foresight]

If you havent already, look up the ice troll beserker feat buddy.

[chad878262]

If you havent already, look up the ice troll beserker feat buddy.

^this... However, I am assuming with that AC you are already using it in your build. There is absolutely a difference between 57 AC and 61 AC, but for your Barbarian I would likely still pick 'standard'' Rage. With all your DR and regeneration the Balor should not be bashing your head in anyway. I would personally much rather have the will saves, though I would say go for Steadfast over Indomidable Soul.

81.

QFT

[qwertyh88]

If you havent already, look up the ice troll beserker feat buddy.

^this... However, I am assuming with that AC you are already using it in your build. There is absolutely a difference between 57 AC and 61 AC, but for your Barbarian I would likely still pick 'standard'' Rage. With all your DR and regeneration the Balor should not be bashing your head in anyway. I would personally much rather have the will saves, though I would say go for Steadfast over Indomidable Soul.

81.

QFT

Ditto..already factored in Ice Troll Berserker since it applies to both version equally....
And steadfast is already factored into both builds..

For curiosity..my barb is 22 barb/4 WoD/ 4 Fighter..

And yes..just in case you get curious (cough cough DM)..I have 30 Tumble and 30 Spellcraft with 16 UMD.
And for those even more curious, I am looking at around 40 Fort save and 40 WILL save (if i go standard rage) with 16 DR/= with +4 epic healing at lvl 30.

+1 point for not having the thread derailed too much...

And what's more..the difference between 61 ac and 57 AC is 4 AC... (just saying))

I like AC81 but you know having a gf already and all..it's a bit too much AC....

So back to the original question..is 61 AC worth the lost of the wills saves and the other colors of standard rage with 57 AC

[DM Foresight]

having played a barbarian type myself, honestly id keep the saves and ditch the small extra ac, with the dr you have and healing, its really not that huge a deal, but failing a save could be, and if you end up in a event bonus ac from spells and such will put you over the top on ac

[DM Foresight]

also rage is nice, but you will run out of rage charges before you can rest, so make sure you factor in the fact that you will not be able to rage endlessly inbetween rests.

me personally I would use my shield when not raging, and swich twohanded while raging, it worked very well.

[artemitavik]

As someone who plays a Utili-tank and depending on wards has a varied AC from mid to high 50s to low 60s, for epic mobs that 4 AC is a HUGE difference at times.

That said, there is also a huge amount of magic tossed about at that level, and often dispells, so if your AC is there due to some wands and such, in part, those will go away fast when you fight something like the dracolich and balor.

If such is the case, it may be better to rely on your 57 AC and high DR and Regen with huge amounts of HP than squeeze out a few more dispellable AC (not playing barbarians here, I don't know if that's a thing).

For the vast majority of the server outside of a few bosses, 57 AC and 16 DR will make you unstoppable with good saves.

[JIŘÍ]

AC 80 here AC 70 there.

Is that a norm? I can't imagine how to get it qwith cleric / fs regardless divine shield or not. That just makes me want to play a wizard.

[Rain]

It's just adding up the math and AC stacking.

But as these guys said above you really don't need AC any higher then 60, mobs will simply just crit you anyway after that point for over-stacking AC that high without any forms of DR or regen.

The one and ONLY mob in the game that you need higher the 60 AC for is the white dragon in the cloud-peak mountains. But there really is no reason to dictate a whole build over killing it unless your doing it for style points.

My advice to you, as an ultra tank myself. . .

50ish AC, High DR, and some form of regeneration. Grab some Use Magic Device for wands or ALOT for scrolls and use those incase you ever need a little boost. One mirror image and one displacement wand go a long way. Death ward wand also.

[JIŘÍ]

It's just adding up the math and AC stacking.

But as these guys said above you really don't need AC any higher then 60, mobs will simply just crit you anyway after that point for over-stacking AC that high without any forms of DR or regen.

The one and ONLY mob in the game that you need higher the 60 AC for is the white dragon in the cloud-peak mountains. But there really is no reason to dictate a whole build over killing it unless your doing it for style points.

My advice to you, as an ultra tank myself. . .

50ish AC, High DR, and some form of regeneration. Grab some Use Magic Device for wands or ALOT for scrolls and use those incase you ever need a little boost. One mirror image and one displacement wand go a long way. Death ward wand also.

I am never concerned by the mobs. Mobs are stupid, AI limited and even avaraged PC will do fine. I meant that for pvp if people get such high AC what's the point of playing melee.

[Rain]

I am never concerned by the mobs. Mobs are stupid, AI limited and even avaraged PC will do fine. I meant that for pvp if people get such high AC what's the point of playing melee.

Most meele builds can very easily get and SHOULD get high 40's to 50's in AB.

Just because we are talking about achievable AC being in the high 60 and 70's (Highest ive seen is 88). That doesn't mean AC that high is normal. Most people on the server only have 40-50's in AC. The only people you'll ever find with absurd AC like that are a large minority of the server.

Also I think PVP will be the least of your worries. . . Revolving a build around what it -could- do in PVP will only make you second guess what you've made over and over and over until you eventually get frustrated.

As a preety open and skilled PVPer let me tell you that there will always be something out there that is better or simply counters your build. It's better to just make a build that fits how you want it to function in PVE FIRST then think about how it plays a role in PVP SECOND.

Edit: This of course is not me saying that you can't make a power-build out of an RP concept.