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Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:34 pm
by AsuraKing
As one of the few people who seem to have a deep gnome running about, I wanted to see if there's any interest in the player base for trying to get something rolling in Rockrun. Currently Rockrun seems to be just a "pit-stop" type town and not many (if any?) people seem all that invested, but I feel like there is a ton of untapped RP potential within it's not-so-secret walls and I would love to see that potential come to light.

That said, I'm curious if there's any desire from anyone else to try and get a proper svirf/Rockrun group going as I'd love to try and get this city some much needed RP and love!

So far my current idea is to establish something like the Wardens of the Webspinners, though I'm certainly open for more ideas.
The Wardens of the Webspinners are a tightly knit order of warriors, warrior/priests, and priests with chapters in most cities of the Forgotten Folk that must regularly battle drow for control of territory. Members of this group are trained in battle tactics designed for use against the followers of the Spider Queen. Many members of this elite company are deep gnome burrow wardens, hence the name of the order.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:34 pm
by Theodore01
The whole UD seems pretty empty most of the day, so it's difficult to fill 2 towns with players.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:59 pm
by chad878262
From personal experience, change has to start somewhere. I spent over a year almost singularly focused on bringing one guild back to life and was successful in getting a solid group of core players heavily involved before I handed off the reigns. It is no different when speaking of getting more players in the Underdark or, more specifically to Rockrun. Consider:

- DM's are more likely to give their time to a group of people and they do make the attempt to spread their attention around. So it's not a valid argument to say lack of players is due to lack of DM involvement. DMs should follow where the players are, not the other way around.

- Players want to be involved where they have fun, presumably with others since they are playing on BG.

When the Underdark has seen periods of high activity (relatively speaking) it has been because one or more groups of players decided to roll a group together, which in turn caused players with UD alts to start playing them. So as a player interested in getting more RP to Rockrun you need to get other players intrigued to play there. Perhaps through RP posts on the forums seeking adventurers for some task in service to Rockrun for example. If you can come up with a cool story that other players can engage in and impact the progression of you'd likely find a good response. However, you have to be prepared that the workload on YOU will be pretty heavy both in terms of recruitment over several months and with regard to coming up with ways to keep the storyline(s) progressing so those players stay engaged.

So for your Wardens idea, how much of a time commitment are you willing to make? Just like with being a DM or even a guild leader, it would fall on you to come up with stories and ideas to keep folks getting together in that particular location. Because it is far too easy to just go back topside where the population is larger and thus the chance of just randomly finding interesting stuff to do is greater.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:23 pm
by c2k
So the issue with the Underdark is thats its original purpose was to get the UD races out of Baldur's Gate because of lore reasons and a player initiative to slay all drow in Baldur's Gate. However, its always been the group of areas to receive the least attention by the staff, and some of it is justifiable(Surface races are more numerous and more often used that the UD races). There have been players who have done initiatives that brought the UD to life over the years and some of the remnants of those initiatives still exist in the UD. But it really a dull place to play, whether you are a grinder farming the same spawn for 10-13 levels or a RPer trying to drum up RP with the two other people down there. Not to mention the a lot of the people who do want to RP in the UD have issues with the unique stance this area of the UD takes on society, as it goes against the UD society depicted in the R.A. Salvatore novels that people derive a lot of their UD lore from.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:15 pm
by Planehopper
I think Rockrun has a lot of potential, and having it welcome to a wider swath of alignments and races means it could probably be pretty interesting for adventure, mercenary, and mercantile play styles.

That said, the map is what kills it for me. I can't stand feeling lost all of the time, and would be much more likely to play there if the map wasn't covered/blacked out. Unless that has already changed?

That is what has always kept me out for the most part.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:11 pm
by c2k
The Underdark is the best areas to play in if you are colorblind though. :lol:

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:33 pm
by Druchii
We drow are happy here in the dark - no lights please.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:58 pm
by cosmic ray
I much prefer Sshamath as a setting than something like Menzoberranzan or Ched Nasad. Sshamath allows for all kinds of underdark roleplay, whereas in Menzoberranzan the Lolth players have fun and the rest just get permakilled for the profit of that group.

It would be great to see Rockrun alive again. That place is very nice and the deep gnomes are a great people.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 3:52 am
by Steve
Oh, I’ve tried!

But i have a fundamental issue with Rockrun in that placed against Canon FR Lore, a Svirf city like Rockrun SHOULD NOT be anything but incredibly secret and incredibly protected from non-Svirf outsiders.

I do realize that Rockrun origins make it “different” than Canon Lore, and I do realize the community needs to ask itself “why have an Area(s) if it isn’t open to the majority of the Playerbase,” but still, it just simply cheapens the RP of a Svirf in Rockrun when you have to sit at a bar with Drow and suck it up because a ton of OOC crap.

Lastly, no matter how many Players you might get to roll up a Svirf, or just spend time in the Upperdark regardless of Race, it will never become much of anything unless the NPCs come alive as well, the environment comes alive.

The majority of Player Attention goes into populating places that have regular and persistent attention from DMs and Staff (upgrades, etc). The name of the game is persistent and LIVING world(s), not static and ignored.

I’d love to get back into Svirf RP like I’ve done before, and Dwarf RP between Kingdoms, but once you get burned a few times, you learn to stop...well, hopefully one learns.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:53 am
by zhazz
Steve wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 3:52 amI do realize that Rockrun origins make it “different” than Canon Lore, and I do realize the community needs to ask itself “why have an Area(s) if it isn’t open to the majority of the Playerbase,” but still, it just simply cheapens the RP of a Svirf in Rockrun when you have to sit at a bar with Drow and suck it up because a ton of OOC crap.

...

I’d love to get back into Svirf RP like I’ve done before, and Dwarf RP between Kingdoms, but once you get burned a few times, you learn to stop...well, hopefully one learns.
I fully agree. When last I played here, I tried to play as a merchant drow, who would expand business to the surface to import rare and exotic goods, such a real wood. But several issues quickly swayed me from that path. Among them how difficult it is to get to the surface — far more than it should be, given F.R. lore. Add to that how most PCs, even those at level 1, only react with suspicion towards a Drow, rather than the terror they should experience based on Drow reputation alone, thus making it practically impossible to intimidate someone into being your patsy or puppet.

Maybe now that the server has an actual Disguise system it would be easier to pull off some of the RP. But even so, having to go through that labyrinth everytime, if not teleporting past it, just kills the incentive.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:53 am
by AsuraKing
Steve wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 3:52 am But i have a fundamental issue with Rockrun in that placed against Canon FR Lore, a Svirf city like Rockrun SHOULD NOT be anything but incredibly secret and incredibly protected from non-Svirf outsiders.
Yeah this has been something that I've had to struggle some to get use to myself. While I think it would be nice to have a lore appropriate city, something tells me there still wouldnt be much of anyone to interact with in it, so even though it goes against the established lore quite a bit I've been trying to adapt. For example, normally my svirfs would be the kind to GTFO if they saw a drow and hide hoping they didnt get follewed, however my current character is more along the lines of an old grump sitting on his porch that doesnt trust any of the young fellers walking past his yard. In Rockrun that is... in the wilds I have him always in a fight or flight position where as long as he can get to the exit he'll get outta dodge but if cornered he becomes a badger.
Steve wrote:Lastly, no matter how many Players you might get to roll up a Svirf, or just spend time in the Upperdark regardless of Race, it will never become much of anything unless the NPCs come alive as well, the environment comes alive.

The majority of Player Attention goes into populating places that have regular and persistent attention from DMs and Staff (upgrades, etc). The name of the game is persistent and LIVING world(s), not static and ignored.
This is indeed a HUGE issue and something I kinda hoped would get sparked by starting this thread to be honest, the DMs/Staff look where the players are, and part of the reason I made this post is to try and grab the DMs/Staff attention.

That said, I'm constantly hanging out in Rockrun being Svirfneblin Batman if I'm not being a Banite elsewhere, so if anyone wants to come hang out feel free to hit me up!

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 2:35 pm
by cosmic ray
Proper deep-gnome lore isn't compatible with roleplay on a PW. There are only two options here: to adapt the lore to make the deep gnomes more gregarious or not to roleplay them at all.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 2:54 pm
by Steve
cosmic ray wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 2:35 pm adapt the lore to make the deep gnomes more gregarious ...
It is a good suggestion. But, we actually don't need to really do that! There is enough precedent in Canon Lore texts to justify a Svirfneblin to work with others, be a part of a Party, and to seek trade/contact in NEUTRAL territory.
Svirfneblin
Silent and wary, the svirfneblin (or deep gnomes) dwell in mines and caverns far beneath the surface of the world. While the rock gnomes of the Lands Above are known for their boundless optimism and cheerful mischief, the deep gnomes are suspicious and serious creatures. Their holdings are hidden from the predatory races that share the Underdark with them because only caution, stealth, and cooperation with others of their kind stand between the svirfneblin and a terrible end.

Svirfneblin are master artisans, miners, and gemcutters. Their handiwork is prized throughout the Realms Below, and the boldest deep gnomes are welcomed as neutral merchants among many Underdark races. They make superior guides, scouts, and foragers because they often know passages and portals long lost to other races, and few can match the stealth or cunning of svirfneblin rangers watching over their own territory.

Personality: Deep gnomes are suspicious and slow to give their trust. They have little desire to meet new people, so most deep gnomes appear grim, sullen, and pessimistic to others. Anyone who takes the considerable trouble to befriend a svirfneblin, however, usually finds him to be a loyal and unflinching comrade whose pragmatic outlook is balanced by a wry, self-deprecating wit.

Svirfneblin admire well-wrought metalwork and weapons, but they love the beauty of gemstones with a passion that seems impossible for creatures with such dour personalities. They are diligent, industrious, and tireless in the pursuit of excellence. Deep gnomes believe that anything worth doing is worth doing well, no matter how long it takes or how difficult it turns out to be.

Physical Description: A deep gnome stands between 3 and 3-1/2 feet tall and weighs between 40 and 45 pounds. He is wiry and lean, with a body as hard as a slab of stone. His skin may be either mottled gray or dun-colored (a good match for the rock around his home), and his eyes are either dark gray or black. A female svirfneblin has hair the same color as her eyes, but a male is entirely bald and beardless.

Relations: Deep gnomes are deeply suspicious of all other races, particularly drow and kuo-toas. To a svirfneblin, a stranger is an enemy, and the best way to deal with enemies is to avoid them completely. Deep gnomes are most accepting of gloamings and slyths, since these folk rarely threaten them. But they deal very cautiously with grimlocks and orogs, having learned that members of these races are all too willing to plunder others who are too weak to defend themselves. Svirfneblin traders take care to meet with merchants of other races in neutral caverns that feature plenty of potential exits, in case a deal goes sour.

Alignment: Svirfneblin believe that their survival depends on avoiding entanglements with other races, so they strongly favor neutral alignments. While they rarely wish others ill, neither are they especially willing to take risks on behalf of others.

Religion: Like most other gnomes, the svirfneblin venerate the gnome pantheon. Their special patron is Callarduran Smoothhands, the Master of Stone.

Language: Svirfneblin speak Gnome and Undercommon. Those who have reason to deal with outsiders often learn Aquan, Common, Dwarven, Elven, or Kuo-Toan as well.

Names: Svirfneblin given names sound somewhat gutteral but are much simpler than the names adopted by their cousins in the Lands Above. Svirfneblin surnames are descriptive and often have to do with gems or stonework. Male: Belwar, Kronthud, Durthmeck, Schneltheck, Thulwar, Walsehud. Female: Beliss, Durthee, Ivridda, Lulthiss, Schnella, Thulmarra. Surnames: Gemcutter, Ironfoot, Rockhewer, Seamfinder, Stonecutter.

Adventurers: While most svirfneblin have little use for adventuring, they are without a doubt the best guides, scouts, and pathfinders in the Underdark. Quick, clever, and stealthy, svirfneblin have an uncanny knack for finding their way through the bleak maze of the Underdark and avoiding dangerous encounters along the way. A few svirfneblin find their way into the adventuring life by serving as guides for parties composed of other races.

Regions: Svirfneblin normally choose the Underdark (Northdark).

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 3:06 pm
by AsuraKing
Yup! I've already spoken OOCly to some people that have expressed interest in working towards gaining Wizzie's trust myself (Which isn't going to be an easy feat to achieve) as well as having reluctantly had him aid as a guide through the UD (Well the UD that I know of... which isnt too much tbh). Even my encounters with some drow have been quite positive (well, OOCly... lots of IC hostility :P ) and most players understand the need to stick to the xenophobic mentality so it's not as rough to play and you really dont have people trying to initiate hostilities which as someone that avoids PvP like the plague is great.

Re: Lets make Rockrun great again!

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 3:48 pm
by KOPOJIbPAKOB
cosmic ray wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 2:35 pm Proper deep-gnome lore isn't compatible with roleplay on a PW. There are only two options here: to adapt the lore to make the deep gnomes more gregarious or not to roleplay them at all.
Server Lore has an interesting solution for it. Rockrun is not a traditional svirf city, but rather ruins of a duergar Kingdom (Titanfist) that was conquered after a war and now is used as a svirfneblin outpost. So that's why it's more or less open for outsiders.