Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I been told that the Vampiric Feast can kill the Dragonlich that most be a bug

It's a known feature of the spell, going as far back as the dawn of Vampiric feast.
https://nwn2.fandom.com/wiki/Vampiric_Feast

The spell damages all hostile undeads, so if it is a bug, it's a bug with the spell itself, not with the dracolich.

According to the spell description, it does not deal negative energy like the other necromancer spells (or make use of negative energy to kill the target)

"When this spell is cast you drink in the life force of creatures in the AoE"

So this is a very complicated thing, and i have found it hard to come across any material about the spell. So according to the spell description its not a bug, it just takes away anything that sustains the target.

Draining life force, especially to heal yourself, is generally negative energy. Vampiric Feast is essentially a more powerful version of other vampiric spells, like Vampiric Touch and Healing Sting, both of which deal negative energy damage. So I do feel it should deal negative energy damage, too.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:04 pm Draining life force, especially to heal yourself, is generally negative energy. Vampiric Feast is essentially a more powerful version of other vampiric spells, like Vampiric Touch and Healing Sting, both of which deal negative energy damage. So I do feel it should deal negative energy damage, too.

THe thing is, according to the Vampiric touch spell description "The target creature takes 1d6 points of negative energy damage for every 2 caster levels" The spell makes it clear that it is dealing negative energy, Vampiric feats on the other hand says it is taking away what sustains the target: ""When this spell is cast you drink in the life force of creatures in the AoE"" so that is a broader category, the only safe way to say for sure would be if someone know of a lore source about the spell, maybe something from a novel or a source material that could tell us more about it. The way i see it, the spells makes it clear that it aims at whatever sustains the target on the prime material. For undead creatures its negative energy. To change that would be IMO a home-brew rule and should not be done just because a 3rd circle spell deals negative energy damage.

There is no canon version of the spell, but you can deconstruct its likely spell seeds.

Instantly kills a target (save for half): Spell Seed Slay
Reanimates the target as a shadow: Spell Seed Animate Dead
Restores the caster's health: Spell Seed Heal

For Spell Seed: Slay, it is untyped damage, not negative. However, it is only supposed to affect living creatures.

So, yeah. Apparently it's correct that it's not negative energy. But going by the spell's construction, it shouldn't affect undead either negatively or positively.

It's still an evil spell.

yyj wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:57 am It's still an evil spell.

... that wasn't in question?

Lockonnow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:02 am I been told that the Vampiric Feast can kill the Dragonlich that most be a bug

Yeah it is a bug in any case regardless of the spell's makeup because this boss (among most epic bosses with a few rare exceptions) is supposed to be death immune. I'll test to see if this is actually possible and figure out some nerf if it is (even if it's just raising the Dracolich's fort save past the point of no return).

dolorof wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:54 pmAccording to the spell description… "When this spell is cast you drink in the life force of creatures in the AoE”. So according to the spell description, it’s not a bug, it just takes away anything that sustains the target.

According to https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dracolich and the reference below... A dracolich is only annihilated when its phylactery is destroyed.

Reference: Ed Greenwood, Sean K. Reynolds, Skip Williams, Rob Heinsoo (June 2001). Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition. (Wizards of the Coast), pp. 310–312. ISBN 0-7869-1836-5.

So to Dolorof’s point, this would mean Vampiric Feast is technically targeting the Dracolich’s phylactery. IMO, the issue then is whether the Dracolich actually keeps its phylactery within the AoE of its person.

Cheers!

Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:00 am There is no canon version of the spell, but you can deconstruct its likely spell seeds.

Instantly kills a target (save for half): Spell Seed Slay
Reanimates the target as a shadow: Spell Seed Animate Dead
Restores the caster's health: Spell Seed Heal

For Spell Seed: Slay, it is untyped damage, not negative. However, it is only supposed to affect living creatures.

So, yeah. Apparently it's correct that it's not negative energy. But going by the spell's construction, it shouldn't affect undead either negatively or positively.

Undeath to death is a spell that slays undead creatures, if anything its more likely to be part of the spell construction since its another necromancy spell.

Endelyon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:18 am

Lockonnow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:02 am I been told that the Vampiric Feast can kill the Dragonlich that most be a bug

Yeah it is a bug in any case regardless of the spell's makeup because this boss (among most epic bosses with a few rare exceptions) is supposed to be death immune. I'll test to see if this is actually possible and figure out some nerf if it is (even if it's just raising the Dracolich's fort save past the point of no return).

Not every spell that kills a target is a death effect.
The wiki also mention that this spell is. "Gameplay notesEdit
This spell is not stopped by Death Ward or similar effects." Which i presumed as coded in the spell?

MrSmith wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:46 am

dolorof wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:54 pmAccording to the spell description… "When this spell is cast you drink in the life force of creatures in the AoE”. So according to the spell description, it’s not a bug, it just takes away anything that sustains the target.

According to https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dracolich and the reference below... A dracolich is only annihilated when its phylactery is destroyed.

Reference: Ed Greenwood, Sean K. Reynolds, Skip Williams, Rob Heinsoo (June 2001). Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition. (Wizards of the Coast), pp. 310–312. ISBN 0-7869-1836-5.

So to Dolorof’s point, this would mean Vampiric Feast is technically targeting the Dracolich’s phylactery. IMO, the issue then is whether the Dracolich actually keeps its phylactery within the AoE of its person.

Cheers!

The phylactery was never a target of the spell, only the physical body of the creature, just like any other spell or melee blow would, the draco will be back, no matter what. The spell don't prevent his body from returning, its the same with any other lich, you could destroy its body with a sphere of anihilation and it would return regardless, as you said the phylactery must be destroyed, but we never had it as a target for the spell in the first place. I dont really understand why you mentioned that?

well iam not sure what the dragon is if is a Deathdragon or a Bone dragon a Lich dragon not many know what it is I wish it have a name any dragon sould have a name on those on the server couse the rumore tell about a about a dragon that use to be a might red dragon that use to room those lands but assume it is dead

dolorof wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:56 am ...as you said the phylactery must be destroyed, but we never had it as a target for the spell in the first place. I dont really understand why you mentioned that?

Sorry... I should have quoted you as it's actually derived from your argument. But roll with me here because to me... all of this is an issue of semantics.

dolorof wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:20 am The way i see it, the spells makes it clear that it aims at whatever sustains the target on the prime material.

I wrote my post after reading Endelyon's clarifying comments.

Endelyon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:18 amYeah it is a bug in any case regardless of the spell's makeup because this boss (among most epic bosses with a few rare exceptions) is supposed to be death immune.

The references I cited make clear Dracolich Death = Destroyed Phylactery. Therefore, a Dracolich immune to death would mean what? It's already possessing a dead body... so immunity to death is actually immunity to its Phylactery.

dolorof wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:56 am The phylactery was never a target of the spell, only the physical body of the creature...

Which is dead already. Therefore death immunity wouldn't really apply, right?

dolorof wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:56 am...the draco will be back, no matter what.

Could an argument be made that Vampiric Feast - relative to the Dracolich - temporarily disrupts "whatever sustains the target on the prime material..." The effect being the Dracolich is temporarily dispatched rather than actually "killed".

Cheers!

As a prime user of that spell, I always assumed that the spell targets whatever energy powers the entity in question, and dissipates it into the Negative Energy Plane/Greater Shadow after you gathered what you could (if you could at all) to heal yourself. So.... If anything ought to be fixed, it should primarily be made so that sucking Undead wouldn't heal you? But that might be too finicky.

Endelyon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:18 am

Lockonnow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:02 am I been told that the Vampiric Feast can kill the Dragonlich that most be a bug

Yeah it is a bug in any case regardless of the spell's makeup because this boss (among most epic bosses with a few rare exceptions) is supposed to be death immune. I'll test to see if this is actually possible and figure out some nerf if it is (even if it's just raising the Dracolich's fort save past the point of no return).

Just as a heads up, the dracolich's fort save is beyond a point of no return. If I recall correctly, in the 40s at least.