Awesome Blow Math

[RedLancer]

Awesome Blow

Issue 1: Awesome Blow does not seem to be properly calculating physical damage.
Issue 2: Awesome Blow seems to expand critical threat range on a Warmace from 19-20 to 16-20 on the Awesome Blow attack itself.
Issue 3: Awesome Blow says it subtracts 4 from the user's attack bonus, but our testing showed it subtracting 7 when using two-handed weapons and 3 when monkeygripping a large weapon with a tower shield.
Issue 4: The wiki text says the feet should knock back creatures smaller than the user. Conversations with Valefort et al. revealed that the intention was for the feat to knock back creatures the same size as the user and smaller. It only knocks back creatures smaller than the user.

Testing PC Stats
Size: Medium
Strength: 28 (+9)
Relevant Feats: Epic Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Enhanced Power Attack
Weapon: Warmace +4, +1d4 Slashing, Keen, 1d8 Electricity (Silverstar of Selune)

When attacking with Awesome Blow, the damage is divided into multiple sources, even if each of those sources is the same damage type. The second Physical value seems to be the 1d4 Slashing property on the Warmace. The first physical value, across dozens of attacks, never exceeded 6, so it seems unlikely that it accounts for the weapon's 1d12 base damage unless there's a flaw in the script.

Two-handed Attacks with Improved Power Attack
Attack 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
Physical: 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 (flawed accounting for weapon base damage?)
Electrical: 5 | 1 | 2 |4 | 4
Physical: 1 | 4 | 4 |1 | 2 (This could be the 1d4 Slashing property on the Warmace)
Physical: 20 | 19 |19 | 19 |19
Reflex DC: 30 |29 | 29 | 29 | 29

Attack Bonus: 25 (from 32, -7)

The final physical value could be accounting for Improved Power Attack. This leaves out, weapon enhancement bonus, weapon specialization feats, and Strength bonus. In all other scenarios, the Reflex DC was the last physical value +1. For this scenario, it was the last physical value +10.

Two-handed Attacks with Northlander Hewing
Physical: 1 | 4 | 2 |1 | 5
Electrical: 6 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 8
Physical: 2 | 3| 1 | 2 | 4
Physical: 29 | 30 | 28 |30 | 29
Reflex DC: 30 | 31 | 29 | 31 | 30

Attack Bonus: 31 (from 38, -7)

The last physical value could be Northlander Hewing (9), Strength*1.5 (13), Weapon Enhancement (4), Weapon Specialization (2), for a total of 28, plus some variable that can flex the value up to 30?

Two-handed Attacks with IPA and NH
Physical: 2 | - | 1
Electrical: 6 | 8 | 6
Physical: 3 | 1 | 1
Physical: 30 | 29 | 29
Reflex DC: 31 | 30 | 30

Attack Bonus: 25 (from 32, -7)

Is there something in the script that prevents accounting for Power Attack and everything else?

Monkeygripped with Tower Shield, with NH
Physical: 4 | 6
Electrical: 6 | 2
Physical: 4 | 3
Physical: 26 | 25
Reflex DC: 27 | 26

Attack Bonus: 31 (from 34, -3)

Final physical value: STR (9), NH (9), EB (4), Weapon Spec (2) = 24 (plus a flex value up to 26?)

Monkeygripped with Towershield, with NH and IPA
Physical: 4 | 6 | 5 | 6
Electrical: 8 | 7 | 7 | 3
Physical: 3 | 4 | 2 | 3
Physical: 34 | 33 | 34 | 33
Reflex DC: 35 | 34 | 35 | 34

Attack Bonus: 25 (from 28, -3)

Final physical value: STR (9), NH (9), EB (4), Weapon Spec (2), IPA (10) = 34

These explanations are pure guesswork without having access to the script.

When using his warmace two-handed, this PC deals 1d12 + 13 (STR*1.5) + 9 (Northlander Hewing) + 20 (Enhanced Improved Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon Specialization) + 4 (Enhancement Bonus) + 1d4 (Slashing), + 1d8 Electrical (Silverstar), for around 60 damage a swing, 55 of which is physical.

[Valefort]

The calculations for the attacks that are done by a clone, such as awesome blow, are entirely custom and amount to several thousands lines trying to account for every possible AB and damage modifier. Needless to say there are holes, so while this clearly seems bugged I won't fix it, perhaps a brave soul will, a complete rework of the feat would be much better.

[chad878262]

a complete rework of the feat would be much better.

Why not go this route? I have to think that a fun and worthwhile mechanic can be done that does not require 1,000's of lines of code. I would say if we can identify which of the bits require so much code than we can simplify that mechanic. As I can see it the following things have to happen when the feat is activated:

- subtract 4 from AB
- determine if opponent is corporeal
- determine if opponent is smaller than attacker (and apparently this is a bug and it should be same size or smaller)
- If opponent is corporeal and smaller than attacker, and if attack hits, opponent makes a reflex save vs. DC of damage dealt
- Upon a failed save move enemy back 10 feet in a straight line unless it hits an obstacle
- if it hits an obstacle apply 1d6 additional damage and enemy is in the location adjacent to the obstacle
- cause enemy to fall prone

I would imagine that we could determine which of these mechanics requires sooooo much code and rework the feat to be more simplistic, yes? Like if the DC = damage dealt is too complex, make the DC 15 + 1/2 CL + STR modifier (which will more than likely be less than the damage being dealt so this would be a slight nerf, which is fine if it fixes other issues IMO). If the issue is with calculating the AB then remove it and we can come up with some other malus such as a penalty to AC, a movement decrease, or simply do the AB malus a different way such as applying it in the way penalties are applied on a charge action.

Happy to brainstorm if any devs would like to rework and simplify this feat to something that can be made less buggy.

[Valefort]

The issue lies in the way the feat is performed. The real cool thing about the clones is that you don't spend an entire round for a special attack like awesome blow but that comes with the drawback of the aforementioned calculations. The other known way to add custom melee attacks is by adding on-hit properties on the weapon periodically, like the reworked expose weakness. However while you use expose weakness as much as possible it's not true for awesome blow as you don't want to send your opponent flying all the time.

Making awesome blow a full round action with a DC of AB + d20 vs AC to succeed to simulate landing a hit then dealing the consequences damage and knockdown or daze as fitting.

[chad878262]

Making awesome blow a full round action with a DC of AB + d20 vs AC to succeed to simulate landing a hit then dealing the consequences damage and knockdown or daze as fitting.

Could it be made to work like Shield Slam where you activate it and the next Shield Bash, if it hits requires a fortitude save vs. DC (10 + 1/2 CL + STR mod) and then a cooldown timer starts? Or does that only work because it is applied to the shield bash and thus is not a part of the standard weapon attack sequence?

[Valefort]

Applying periodically is no problem but I don't think you want to do that with awesome blow which is a mix of knockdown and get away from me. It's useful when you face several opponents, otherwise not so much and applying it periodically would not allow you to choose when exactly to use it.

[RedLancer]

Shield Slam applies on use; it's not a mode. Is that only doable because it's separate from the standard attack schedule?

[chad878262]

Applying periodically is no problem but I don't think you want to do that with awesome blow which is a mix of knockdown and get away from me. It's useful when you face several opponents, otherwise not so much and applying it periodically would not allow you to choose when exactly to use it.

Shield Slam is not a mode, it's an activated stun (says daze, but allows sneak attacks) with an 18s cooldown. Like I said, might not be doable for awesome blow as the shield bashing is occurring outside of the standard attack flurries.

[Valefort]

Yes shield bash is entirely separate from normal attack schedule.

[chad878262]

Yes shield bash is entirely separate from normal attack schedule.

This is probably an asinine question for which I apologize in advance, but....

So is there a way to have an attack outside the standard attack schedule like a 'bonus' attack action that would work like shield bash and allow for using 'activated' feats without a standin actor? Or is the shield bash code also super complex which would make this not a good solution?

[Valefort]

You can, the question becomes how do you calculate the attack bonus of this new attack ? Depending on the precision you want you'll check for weapon feats, AB increase effects, combat modes, etc .. ending with thousands of lines with still plenty of holes. Same for damage.

You also have to determine which attack of the normal attack schedule is replaced as well unless you deem giving an extra special attack on top of the normal attack schedule okay.

[RedLancer]

If it were a mode like Expose Weakness, it seems easy enough to control its application via toggling. That seems to be the most elegant solution.