Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hello!

I've noticed a few events recently have been scheduling in their own local time zones (EST, CST, etc). I'd like to request people stop doing this. It is much more difficult for people who are not in that timezone to convert to and from that timezone. On the other hand, everyone should know how to convert their own local time zone to and from GMT/UTC. Heck, the conversion is right at the top left of the forum.

Universal time zones exist for a reason. So please, if you're going to schedule something, schedule it in GMT/UTC. Attendees can then convert to their local time zones easily from there.

Thank you.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:24 pm Hello!

I've noticed a few events recently have been scheduling in their own local time zones (EST, CST, etc). I'd like to request people stop doing this. It is much more difficult for people who are not in that timezone to convert to and from that timezone. On the other hand, everyone should know how to convert their own local time zone to and from GMT/UTC. Heck, the conversion is right at the top left of the forum.

Universal time zones exist for a reason. So please, if you're going to schedule something, schedule it in GMT/UTC. Attendees can then convert to their local time zones easily from there.

Thank you.

So true

Totally support this.

The forum has already provided us with the convenience of showing both the GMT and local time at the top left corner. Please utilize this convenience!

realayer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:11 pm Totally support this.

The forum has already provided us with the convenience of showing both the GMT and local time at the top left corner. Please utilize this convenience!

I would complain about DST constantly mixing things up... but yeah, it accounts for that. That's nice.

DST does mess things up, especially since some areas don't use it. For instance, depending on who you ask, EST can be -5 or -4.

I support this idea!

How exactly is DST messing things up? I could probably add something for that too, but then I need to know the issue.

Zanniej wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:11 am I support this idea!

How exactly is DST messing things up? I could probably add something for that too, but then I need to know the issue.

The issue is that some countries have DST from X to Y, others have it from I to J, and others still don't have it. (Don't even get me started on the varying degrees of DST...) It means that if you're relying on anything short of your own regional time - or regions you know share your DST schedule (like I occasionally do, by referencing "British time" instead of "GMT") - you need to be aware of your DST schedule, their DST schedule, and the conversions involved.

To some extent, your time widget already does solve it, by showing UTC time and your local time with its UTC offset. (Though it labels it as GMT, which might occasionally be misinterpreted as meaning British time regardless of DST status.) There's not really much more you can do about it, unless you're saying you can magically abolish/standardize DST across the whole planet...

Edit: Hypocrisy, thy name is Dalo. Complaining about the use of GMT versus UTC when my signature does the same... :rolleyes:

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:34 am

Zanniej wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:11 am I support this idea!

How exactly is DST messing things up? I could probably add something for that too, but then I need to know the issue.

The issue is that some countries have DST from X to Y, others have it from I to J, and others still don't have it. (Don't even get me started on the varying degrees of DST...) It means that if you're relying on anything short of your own regional time - or regions you know share your DST schedule (like I occasionally do, by referencing "British time" instead of "GMT") - you need to be aware of your DST schedule, their DST schedule, and the conversions involved.

To some extent, your time widget already does solve it, by showing UTC time and your local time with its UTC offset. (Though it labels it as GMT, which might occasionally be misinterpreted as meaning British time regardless of DST status.) There's not really much more you can do about it, unless you're saying you can magically abolish/standardize DST across the whole planet...

Edit: Hypocrisy, thy name is Dalo. Complaining about the use of GMT versus UTC when my signature does the same... :rolleyes:

UTC is not GMT and british time is not GMT. UTC as universal time standard does not change with DST, during DST changes you are for example always UTC+1 regardless of winter/summer time. GMT on the other hand is different, while GMT+0 doesn't move from UTC+0 your country switches between GMT+1 and GMT+2 and you should always know if you are GMT+1 or +2 and likewise the forum uses GMT and not UTC and switches accordingly when appropriate based on your location and DST table info. So, if you reference GMT as time base, it doesn't matter when anyone switches DST because you know if you are GMT+1 or GMT+2 and they know if they are GMT-5 or -6 at the time, since the baseline is the same, you just need to alter your own calculation.

DiceyCZ wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:09 amUTC is not GMT and british time is not GMT. UTC as universal time standard does not change with DST, during DST changes you are for example always UTC+1 regardless of winter/summer time. GMT on the other hand is different, while GMT+0 doesn't move from UTC+0 your country switches between GMT+1 and GMT+2 and you should always know if you are GMT+1 or +2 and likewise the forum uses GMT and not UTC and switches accordingly when appropriate based on your location and DST table info. So, if you reference GMT as time base, it doesn't matter when anyone switches DST because you know if you are GMT+1 or GMT+2 and they know if they are GMT-5 or -6 at the time, since the baseline is the same, you just need to alter your own calculation.

Okay, let's break this down...

UTC is not GMT

Technically true, but the distinction is irrelevant in the context of this discussion, as the difference between the two is never more than a second. (With this in mind, it's unsurprising that the two are often used interchangeably.)

and british time is not GMT.

While technically true, I have seen people use those terms interchangeably. There was a time when I consistently counted myself among those people.

UTC as universal time standard does not change with DST,

True...

during DST changes you are for example always UTC+1 regardless of winter/summer time.

Wrong. CEST, my current timezone, corresponds to UTC+2. At some date I still haven't committed to memory, I will go back to CET, which is UTC+1.

GMT on the other hand is different, while GMT+0 doesn't move from UTC+0 your country switches between GMT+1 and GMT+2

Or between UTC+1 and UTC+2, as per my previous remarks.

and you should always know if you are GMT+1 or +2

Therein lies the core of my complaint. In a perfect world, DST would apply consistently across the globe (thus reducing the amount of situations where knowledge of the DST switchover dates was relevant), or not at all. Like I said, it's not something Zanniej has any control over.

Also, as I'll point out later, I may need to know whether someone else is currently on DST, too.

and likewise the forum uses GMT and not UTC and switches accordingly when appropriate based on your location and DST table info.

Technically true, aside from once again unnecessarily emphasizing a distinction without a (meaningful) difference.

So, if you reference GMT as time base, it doesn't matter when anyone switches DST because you know if you are GMT+1 or GMT+2

I don't, though. It's taken me weeks (months?) to get "Oh hey, DST is back on/off now" through my thick skull. It's been going on for years, ever since I first had to coordinate scheduling with people outside my own timezone.

and they know if they are GMT-5 or -6 at the time,

History has shown me that they aren't always sure, either... or perhaps they just don't use unambiguous terminology like that. Far too often, it's just "Pacific time", "Eastern time", "Central time", or abbreviations of those which may or may not be accurate to their current DST status. (I actually had to check earlier if I was in CEST or CET...)

As an example of this, you can see c2k's post - EST doesn't change, but some regions using EST will temporarily switch to EDT during the year. Does he know? Does he care? Is he only echoing the ambiguous usage of others? Who knows?

since the baseline is the same, you just need to alter your own calculation.

TL;DR: If both sides do everything right, and provide their information in an unambiguous format, then sure, things work fine. In reality, it's rarely quite that simple.