Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Over the last 10ish years I've played pretty much every role except cleric. I am finally turning my gaze towards the divine and have two quick build questions.

1)Is there any reason to go deep into the cleric class? From a quick look, I see 0 reason whatsoever to go anything more than the minimum 5-7 cleric. If you need epic feats, go hospitaler. If you want high DCs, go hospitaler and hierophant. dip rogue or monk with blackflame or sacred fist. etc. Are there any reasons/builds to for going deep cleric?

2)What is the proper amount of wisdom? 16(or 19 with hierophant) is all that is required to cast your spells. If your cleric is more melee focused, should you be pumping strength/dex instead for the AB? Even if you are a summoner focused or a jack of all trades cleric is there really any reason to bump wisdom up beyond the minimum requirement?

Zkenic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:58 pm 1)Is there any reason to go deep into the cleric class? From a quick look, I see 0 reason whatsoever to go anything more than the minimum 5-7 cleric. If you need epic feats, go hospitaler. If you want high DCs, go hospitaler and hierophant. dip rogue or monk with blackflame or sacred fist. etc. Are there any reasons/builds to for going deep cleric?

Take a look at the domains. Certain domains only improve with Cleric levels. Otherwise, there is some benefit to staying 'pure' related to turn undead as well especially since not all cleric prcs progress TU.

Zkenic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:58 pm 2)What is the proper amount of wisdom? 16(or 19 with hierophant) is all that is required to cast your spells. If your cleric is more melee focused, should you be pumping strength/dex instead for the AB? Even if you are a summoner focused or a jack of all trades cleric is there really any reason to bump wisdom up beyond the minimum requirement?

Depends on what you want. While somewhat limited due to spell selection DC Cleric can be a thing which requires max WIS. In addition if you go for Solar Channeler you want 30 WIS. If you want EDM you'll leave DEX at ~13 for Mithril Full Plate while going for ~22 STR/ 22 CHA (26 with Bull STR and Eagle's Splender, 28 STR with Divine Power). In the case of EDM yes you'll probably go for WIS of ~16-18 depending on race and what you can get unless you want to get some Heirophant (but 19 WIS is a big ask with 21 STR and CHA requirement). Cleric can certainly grab Thaumaturge for summoning, but note that it hits your lowish AB so in that case you definitely want Hospitaler or WarPriest to compensate if you want to use summons plus melee.

cleric is insanely versatile with many ways to build it. You just have to consider all of the various things like RP, deity selection, domains and then align your build accordingly to support what you want out of it.

Is there a way to play an EDM cleric without going Aasimar? I am having a hard time getting 21str/21cha and 16wisdom without being completely and utterly min-maxed.

aside from domains the only other reason to go high cleric is turn undead, like actually turning undead, but even then there are a few PrCs that dont interrupt turning progression

tho arguably, since you are trying to figure out EDM, EDM and plowing your way thru undead is still better than using TU itself, because in epics TU is just a minute long cc, if you dont suck at it

and cleric is no different than any other build trying to do EDM, you are going to have to min max if you dont wanna play an ugly face

Zkenic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:45 pm Is there a way to play an EDM cleric without going Aasimar? I am having a hard time getting 21str/21cha and 16wisdom without being completely and utterly min-maxed.

You always have to give up something... Technically you only 'need' 15 WIS since there are +4 WIS items available, but then you need either UMD for a wand of Barkskin or Spiderskin or a domain that grants you one of these spells since +4 WIS items use your neck slot which is the only slot you can get Natural Armor in. So if you don't want to play a Cleric of a deity that allows you to get these spells and you don't want to get UMD then 16 is where you need to be (you can find +3 WIS items on rings, helmets, etc. common enough that you need not worry about using the neck slot).

As to races, Aasimar is of course the best as you are getting +2 WIS and CHA which are both super important for you, but there are other options that would allow you to get EDM. Some other options:

- Human: Starting stats: 16 / 8 / 10 / 10 / 16 / 15. With 7 level up stat increases that puts you at 21 STR and 17 CHA so you need at least 4 great CHA in order to get EDM. Thus pure cleric (for bonus feats) or Hospitaler is going to help, but isn't strictly required... Without bonus feats you have to spend your first 4 epic feats on great CHA and your last one on EDM.

- Wood Elf: stats: 18 / 10 / 8 / 10 / 16 / 14. +2 STR helps at the expense of INT and CON. If you don't care about skill points and don't mind being a below average INT Priest you could leave INT at 8 instead of CON, but with Bears Endurance I would just leave CON at 8. This route allows you to only need 3 epic feats for great charisma for qualification to EDM. Look at it as giving up a pre-epic feat (human) to gain an epic feat. Not a bad trade.

Half-Elf / Half-Drow can be done same as Human and of course Drow works well thanks to their crazy stats. Basically with the ability to wear full plate as a cleric and forgoing Mithril Full Plate (which is -2 AC, but allows you to dump DEX) it makes it less daunting to be able to go EDM route as a Cleric. That said, the severe MAD they have is why many who want an EDM Cleric just make a Favored Soul and dip either Paladin, Blackguard or Cleric in order to get EDM since Favored Soul can dump WIS. Cleric RP is fun though and you can certainly still make it work. Aasimar is easiest, but not the only way, you could even do it with a Grey Orc, though that would certainly require a bit more min/maxing.

After playing around with it for a bit I think Im going to forgo EDM. I like having enough int to have more skills than spellcraft and concentrate, and I usually rp my stats pretty straightforward and it wouldnt fit to rp having low con on my character concept. I think I am going to go with getting wisdom to 19, then pumping strength and go with hospitaler and hierophant. Thanks for the help guys.

Zkenic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:00 am After playing around with it for a bit I think Im going to forgo EDM. I like having enough int to have more skills than spellcraft and concentrate, and I usually rp my stats pretty straightforward and it wouldnt fit to rp having low con on my character concept. I think I am going to go with getting wisdom to 19, then pumping strength and go with hospitaler and hierophant. Thanks for the help guys.

if you are pumping STR, dont forget to take Northlander Hewing for more damage when you need it

izzul wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:27 pm

Zkenic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:00 am After playing around with it for a bit I think Im going to forgo EDM. I like having enough int to have more skills than spellcraft and concentrate, and I usually rp my stats pretty straightforward and it wouldnt fit to rp having low con on my character concept. I think I am going to go with getting wisdom to 19, then pumping strength and go with hospitaler and hierophant. Thanks for the help guys.

if you are pumping STR, dont forget to take Northlander Hewing for more damage when you need it

Which is better do you think, Northlander Hewing or CE? I only have one open feat here, and I dont know which one to take.

as a cleric you have access to lots of ways to improve your AC. Consider:

10 + 9 (FP and 12 DEX) + 5 (MV) + 8 (dodge/natural) + 5 (deflection from spell) + 7 (heavy shield and MV) = 44. Throw in LoH, 10 skill points in tumble, and you are at 46. If you want you can even set DEX to 13 w/ +3 item or 12 w/ +4 gloves and use mithril full plate which would get you up to 48. Not great, but not terrible. Now throw in DR, Regen and all the other spell protections and I think you can see that damage will be more your issue than defense. So in your case I would go NH.