Monkerer

[Blackbird]

Altoholic fascinated by weird builds seeks advice on a monk/sorcerer after reading about the Order of the Dark Moon. Is there a way to make this work without feeling too bad? Has anyone played a similar combo and if so, how does it feel on BG? As someone who doesn't usually play casters, I don't have a great feel for them mechanically. Bonus points if you can get shadow adept in for appropriate flavor.

[chad878262]

Monk does not synergize well with arcane casters, but especially sorcerer. That said it can be done, you just have to make some decisions on what you are looking for here. There is no Sacred Fist for Arcane Caster progression so by default you either have really low caster level or complete crap monk abilities. If you just want a Sorcerer who is kind of a monk You could go Monk 6 (for IKD)/ Sorc 6/ EK8/ Shadow Adept 10 if you wanted to. With Practiced Caster your CL is 27 which is not terrible and you will have CL30 for Necromancy, Illusion and Enchantment. your BAB is only 20, which can be increased by going SA8/EK10 with the impact being lowering your CL for the 3 schools to 29. The downside is here you are not a very effective monk, but could probably do some cool things if you go Strength based with a quarterstaff for example.

The other side of the coin is reducing caster level to be more monk-ish. Something like Monk 16/Sorc6/EK8 for example gets adamantine fists and enough fist damage to be at least serviceable (but by no means good), while getting CL 13, just enough for level 7 spells (CL17 with PSC). Here you could reduce Monk down to 11, for example for something like M11/S6/EK10/SA3 which would be CL18 (22 w/ PSC) and enough for level 9 spells. This is probably better than going for Monk 16 since you are still probably best off going for a STR focused Quarter Staff Monk and here you get 22 BAB so with Greater Flurry of Blows you'll have 8 APR (due to the bugged extra attack).

No matter what you pick the biggest issue is the severe case of MAD you have. You need a minimum 15 Charisma (w/ +4 item) to cast level 9 spells. You need WIS and DEX for your AC and then you need STR in order to get enough AB and damage. The way I would build something like this is probably the M11/S6/EK10/X3 version (where X could be Shadow Adept or some other caster progression class to get level 9 spells). I would then focus on having 'enough' DEX and WIS so I could get my AC somewhere to be survivable (probably around 45 minimum since mirrors and displacement will keep you safe with that AC most of the time), whatever is left after that I would make Charisma either 15 or 16 and everything else goes to Strength.

So long as you understand it will not be as strong as a divine-gish-monk in any way, shape or form and don't expect it to be as high performing as power builds, it will work well enough to be quite fun IMO.

[Kitunenotsume]

I've tried to make a Monk of the Dark Moon before (on a different server), but they are dependent on 4 abilities, and nerf themselves as a result unless the setting has a specific PRC for them, as Chad pointed out.

I would recommend making sure you consider your spell selections to synergize - mine relied rather heavily on Tenser's Transformation to perform better as a monk, but it comes with the tradeoff of losing your spells for the duration. Since your DCs are likely to be poor, focusing on Ray spells (particularly necromancy) would let you get more leverage out of Dexterity and permit a lighter casting stat and a generally lower CL (Though keep in mind that CL is required for dispel resistance). Running one or two finessable monk weapons also allows for a lighter Str score because you can scrape Dex for that as well.

In either regards, since we don't have a proper monk/arcane PRC here, you will definitely want to chose which side to support - monk with caster or caster with monk. If you don't mind being a squishy ball, there is the option of splashing SD if you can get the 19 Dex in time, and relying on flat-foot AC and HiPS to avoid damage, but that comes at a substantial detriment to Wis and further reduces your overall CL and AB because you can't take EK. (though it is super fluffy)

[Blackbird]

Thanks both of you for the insight. I came across some nice gloves and a monk's belt earlier today, which seemed like fate nudging me in that direction, so looks I'm going to lean into that and try to fit in SD as Kitunenotsume suggested (finessable fists?). Maybe something like M16/SD3/S6/SA4; almost full monk feats, shadow shield off shadow adept, HiPS and a (weak, but fluffy!) shadow summon and it seems pretty true to the lore after reading up in Champions of Ruin: "Likewise, green candidates will often show aptitude for one class or the other, but not both, and so leave the monastery with only rudimentary skills as a monk or sorcerer." Ultimately, I'd rather go for an under-powered RP-appropriate build than power-building and ignoring fluff.

I'm curious though if after hitting the cutoff for SD, it would be worthwhile to invest further in charisma given I'll be dispel target #1 or just to run straight dex? I'd be looking at a starting spread of something like 10/16/10/10/15/15.

[chad878262]

I'm curious though if after hitting the cutoff for SD, it would be worthwhile to invest further in charisma given I'll be dispel target #1 or just to run straight dex? I'd be looking at a starting spread of something like 10/16/10/10/15/15.

Your cattery level is 10 so you will only have level 5 spells... more charisma will give you bonus slots but little else. Honestly you could just leave it at 13 and use a +3 cha item to have 16 and be fine.