Enable higher tier dungeons for all

[JIŘÍ]

Enable experiences and loot from higher tier dungeons (from CR15+) for all.

I speak of dungeons not open areas spawns (in UD, perhaps only netherese ruins and duergar compound fulfill that description).

1)
The secluded state right now just supports that ugly elitist feeling where multiple players think majority of server content belongs to them and others should be punished if wishing to visit it. Just take a look how everyone defended that grief rule (KOS) by arguments how UD players are idiots and bad rpers (no, none of you wrote it that open but every single post defending that griefer rule had been implying it over and over).

2)
It would increase variety. Right now UD characters are locked from like 80% of content on the server. It would allow people to just go somewhere else instead of one thousendth trip to duergar compound /ruins in Upper dark and enjoy the main aspect of adventurer RPG (nwn) - exploration.

3)
It would add dynamic conflict between random encounters.

[JIŘÍ]

Alternative: give one time award for a successful passage of dungeon to those who wouldn't normally get an exp or loot. Could work for new dungeons in UD in future too.

[gotesu]

Regarding point 1 and 2;

As visible in so many threads surrounding this topic, it's somewhat delicate

Drow are the best race in the game mechanically speaking (putting aside the svirfs , most people arent very gnome inclined and it's a UD race too anyways), and as things are, I, as a player (and i dont think Im the only one), am naturally more inclined into making characters that are stronger (the reason the amount of tieflings and aasimars is so high, or the sudden baby boom of genasis after their recent tweak , or the amount of characters with negative wis/cha).

Hence, making those races have no 'real penalty' (and ECL is not a real penalty, as in this server it doesnt limit the max lvl) will statistically cause too many of such characters to be made and roam everywhere - breaking the lore and atmosphere of the UD and the drow (with a baby boom of Drizzts too).

And while sustaining lore and atmosphere sometimes come at the expense of individual characters, it is there to enable as much a rich variety of rp themes as possible, so that everyone can find their place and fun (because honestly, the drow theme provide so much , from the powerhungry mages of Sshamath and their tension with the Lolthites all the way to the Eilistraeens and even the Shevareshians that exist because the drow do - and without the evil lolthite theme there will be no Eilistraeen one).

It's not because UDers are bad rp-ers, on the contrary, I've had some of my best rp experience with UDers, but it was much thanks to the fact the UD theme is unique as it is.

I would note that I would've wished to see the UD much more populated and alive, to have it equal to the surface in what it can offer the players, so I understand where you're coming from.

[JIŘÍ]

The UD would need to become its own server to provide what surface offers.

And then you could as well just make it seperate server jn all regards if you want to keep it secluded.

Lack of interaction and claustrofobic setting of server (access to no other dungeons or interesting places, being subject to the griefer rule) ensures no ud faction is going to last long to provide meaningful play.

On top a privileged caste of players pretending there is them (surface players) and us (UD players) failing to understand we all are fellow players of same server.

I see no reason at all why my drow regardless of alignment and faith (indeed I play also evil ones) shouldn't interact with surface world, visit dungeons above, and engage in occasional pvp skirmish (be it on side good or evil) without being subject to the KOS rule because let's be honest after I was reading all those in support of this rule and their arguments It really made me sick and settled doubts in the gaming community here. FortunetlyI am aware that few shouters on forum do not make up entire community.

The fact drow is mechanically strong race I sperhaps only valid point.

However you got tens of tieflong on the surface and I haven't noticed anyone even to bother to role play out any disdain. The brief time I played an elf there was a tieflong in every party and often up to two or more, marrily wagging their tails and showing horns.

There is always a solution. Prevent these things to be rcred into, limit their number, and with drow, nothing prevents developers to decrease their SR to 32 on lvl 30.

There is a saying who wants searches how and who does not, seeks why it can't be done.

[Steve]

The problem seems to be simply that most players and most DMs do not want or enjoy role-playing in the Underdark. To go on and then write and accuse players as being elitist or special or imply special treatment is only going to serve to insult, and thus your underlying request has even less of a chance to get accepted, not least reviewed with an open mind.

Because also by stating such things as:

However you got tens of tieflong on the surface and I haven't noticed anyone even to bother to role play out any disdain.

Just because YOU have not noticed it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And, it is a statement that compares apples to oranges, because Tieflings on the Surface IS NOT Drow on the Surface.

It seems it is hard for you to accept that on BGTSCC, Drow belong to and are a part of the Underdark, and that supports the D&D Forgotten Realms era the Server is based on.

Again, would your “problems” exist if more players and DMs wanted to RP in the Underdark? Would your problems exist if more Areas existed in the Underdark? Because I read ya ther clearly that you have issues that have to do more with the UD on BGTSCC than the need to allow UD PCs access to the Surface (which they DO have, btw, for RP).

Literally, allowing full surface access to Drow would essentially destroy the canon lore of the era in which BGTSCC exists. Drizzt is/was a SINGULAR exception on the Sword Coast, THE SWORD COAST, of which and where BGTSCC exists.

I personally do not want to see that canon aspect destroyed, and instead, would much rather advocate for more Areas, more DMs and more players to be in the UD.

[yyj]

It's ridiculous to think Drizzt is the only surface drow ever at this time, Eilistraee and Vhaerajn would simply not exists as deities and would have been dead years ago.


As for the dungeons, I disapprove. I don't think there should be mechanical reasons for drow rewarded in surface. RP is fine as that is how server rules work, but open dungeons is a bad idea in general.

[Steve]

It's ridiculous to think Drizzt is the only surface drow ever at this time,

Hence why I wrote and emphasized Sword Coast.

[chad878262]

It's ridiculous to think Drizzt is the only surface drow ever at this time, Eilistraee and Vhaerajn would simply not exists as deities and would have been dead years ago.

I've had this discussion with others, but it bears repeating... There simply are not any large settlements/enclaves of Drow on the surface YET (as of 1356 DR). The Promenade in Skullport had construction started in late 1355 DR and IIRC is not even completed yet, much less would it have a large population of Elistraeen drow. You can of course go much further back and say that Qilue's mother was leading "a group of like minded drow" to find someplace for a settlement on the surface, but even here they were nowhere near the region of our server. So while drow on the surface or canonically a thing, it is nowhere near common and currently (for our timeline) is not happening on the Sword Coast (outside of Waterdeep/Skullport where a small-ish community of drow is building the Promenade and unlikely to be traveling to our region).

The idea of Drow being either a)unknown or b)feared/hated is absolutely the only reasonable way that it can be RP'd in a lore accurate manner during our timeline without a lot of leaps being made...

Of course, medium RP server so everyone is free to play as they wish, but the lore argument doesn't hold water based upon the timeline we play in and canon details of where drow on the surface are currently located.

TL;DR - Steve's right... on the sword coast our server rules are supported by canon and server lore that has occurred up to this point.

[yyj]

It's ridiculous to think Drizzt is the only surface drow ever at this time, Eilistraee and Vhaerajn would simply not exists as deities and would have been dead years ago.

I've had this discussion with others, but it bears repeating... There simply are not any large settlements/enclaves of Drow on the surface YET (as of 1356 DR). The Promenade in Skullport had construction started in late 1355 DR and IIRC is not even completed yet, much less would it have a large population of Elistraeen drow. You can of course go much further back and say that Qilue's mother was leading "a group of like minded drow" to find someplace for a settlement on the surface, but even here they were nowhere near the region of our server. So while drow on the surface or canonically a thing, it is nowhere near common and currently (for our timeline) is not happening on the Sword Coast (outside of Waterdeep/Skullport where a small-ish community of drow is building the Promenade and unlikely to be traveling to our region).

The idea of Drow being either a)unknown or b)feared/hated is absolutely the only reasonable way that it can be RP'd in a lore accurate manner during our timeline without a lot of leaps being made...

Of course, medium RP server so everyone is free to play as they wish, but the lore argument doesn't hold water based upon the timeline we play in and canon details of where drow on the surface are currently located.

TL;DR - Steve's right... on the sword coast our server rules are supported by canon and server lore that has occurred up to this point.

That promenade is being built by invisible people, it's weird that a temple to Eilistraee that started getting built last year, by the chosen of Eilistraee, has no surface drow in it. Maybe check this out



Please, I approve of hating drow IC, but you don't know 100% all the canon of Faerun

Play your racist PCs all you want, just don't tell me it's false because I read the books. There are more surface drow than you may want to accept, yes they are hated, I have seen an OOC agenda interfering with IC to the point of people attacking others in the Shrine of Eldath, which breaks immersion a lot, since it takes power from divinity.

And yes, Steve is right.

[chad878262]

That promenade is being built by invisible people, it's weird that a temple to Eilistraee that started getting built last year, by the chosen of Eilistraee, has no surface drow in it. Maybe check this out

Please, I approve of hating drow IC, but don't try to lie to me, you don't know 100% all of the lore and maybe missed a few things, so please don't lie.

Play your racist PCs all you want, just don't lie to me.

And yes, Steve is right.

Wow, rude and wrong... you quoted what I typed and then called me a liar when the quote from me specifies there *ARE DROW ON THE SURFACE* specifically building the Promenade... In fact, if you read what I wrote you'd see I even stated you can go farther back for the small group of drow looking for a home including Qilue's mother. However, what is also supported is the fact that these Drow are not in Baldur's Gate, Beregost, Nashkel or anywhere else represented on our server.

These are not lie's, they are facts of Geography. And name calling won't get you anywhere.

[yyj]

Sorry I edited my post.

It's very strange, there was a Sanctuary to Eilistraee in the Sword Coast at some point, that housed eilistreean drow, so you are doing a big disservice to local server lore. If it was approved by DMs, then it's canon.

Right? I guess, you just forgot about it, or didn't mention it for a reason?

[Snarfy]

It's very strange, there was a Sanctuary to Eilistraee in the Sword Coast at some point, that housed eilistreean drow, so you are doing a big disservice to local server lore. If it was approved by DMs, then it's canon.

Right? I guess, you just forgot about it, or didn't mention it for a reason?

Once again, with the assumptions. Perhaps you should take a moment and ask yourself if the person you're condescending to even knows about anything about the existence of any Eilistraeen sanctuaries on the PW? (Are there any? I've never heard of them either). Or are you so dead set in your opinions that you feel it's more appropriate to call out people for doing the server a disservice, simply because they don't agree with you?

The only person I see doing any disservice is you, on these forums, while you hurl invective, call people liars, and otherwise misunderstand them with nearly every post. Please, do everyone a favor, and take a breath.

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[Steve]

there was a Sanctuary to Eilistraee in the Sword Coast at some point...

If true, is a sanctuary a place that Drow live on the Surface? It also doesn’t then support the OPs request, either (and yes I don’t see that statement being made, I just want to “get back” to the OP...we could debate Drow on Surface BGTSCC lore canon lore in another thread).

That said, there can still be Drow on the Surface currently, on this Server, if a reason supports it. You just are mechanical blocked from gaining XP and looting treasure (which is where the OP is on about).

[Rhifox]

Not entirely true that drow don't have largish settlements on the surface during our timeline. But it's not Eilistraeens, but rather Vhaerunites, who do and have populated the surface for a long time and including a Sword Coast location specifically (Trollbark Forest north of Warlock's Crypt, which is quite close to our area). They began populating areas that elves left abandoned when they were retreating to Evermeet, at least as early as the 1200s, if not earlier. The Trollbark Forest group is about the only surface drow group that could theoretically be involved in local server shenanigans, but it is of course up to the DMs whether they actually exist for BGTSCC or not.

Small shrines to Eilistraee also exist in the Misty Forest, some sites having survived from as far back as the Crown Wars, but these aren't really settlements so much as isolated places where the occasional surface Eilistraeen might be found.

Source for above is Demihuman Deities, which is a 2nd edition sourcebook.

Also why does this topic have to keep coming up in these threads? And why does it always have to be so toxic when it does?

[Snarfy]

Also why does this topic have to keep coming up in these threads? And why does it always have to be so toxic when it does?

Clearly some people are very sensitive/defensive where these topics are concerned, and I have no idea why, it's just a video game. There's really no need for players to start slinging vitriol at each other over this stuff. Hell, what was the topic even about again?

Enable experiences and loot from higher tier dungeons (from CR15+) for all.

I speak of dungeons not open areas spawns (in UD, perhaps only netherese ruins and duergar compound fulfill that description).

1)
The secluded state right now just supports that ugly elitist feeling where multiple players think majority of server content belongs to them and others should be punished if wishing to visit it. Just take a look how everyone defended that grief rule (KOS) by arguments how UD players are idiots and bad rpers (no, none of you wrote it that open but every single post defending that griefer rule had been implying it over and over).

2)
It would increase variety. Right now UD characters are locked from like 80% of content on the server. It would allow people to just go somewhere else instead of one thousendth trip to duergar compound /ruins in Upper dark and enjoy the main aspect of adventurer RPG (nwn) - exploration.

3)
It would add dynamic conflict between random encounters.

Oh, right... uhh, I'll wait to respond. Far too much angst here right now.