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Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:32 am
by gedweyignasia
If we started adding more content for late-epics or post Lv30 characters, which of the following would be most important to players for repeated visits? Which would not be very appealing? I'm trying to figure out what players think would make them want to revisit an area over and over and over...
- Scripted elements to explore/interactive environments
- Centrally located
- Lots of chests
- Randomization of minor elements (chests, etc.)
- Randomization of key elements (e.g. randomized puzzles)
- Extremely challenging combat
- High bar to entry, so you can't go there often (e.g. remote location, only available with a quest, only available on certain days, etc.)
I'm wondering if those are pros or cons for people; which ones would create lasting appeal and which would just be a nuisance.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:09 am
by gedweyignasia
How would you feel about a challenging, test-yourself-to-the-limit area like that, but with no loot at all?
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:02 am
by gedweyignasia
So... adventure itself as a reward is a no-no?
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:30 am
by Tanlaus
gedweyignasia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:09 am
How would you feel about a challenging, test-yourself-to-the-limit area like that, but with no loot at all?
I am most intrigued by the challenging combat idea. Maybe randomized high level encounters so you don’t automatically know how to prepare for each fight.
Definitely not a fan of putting it in BG... excludes us UDers.
I feel like there should be some reward or people will avoid it as they’ll likely blow consumables and not want to go broke replacing them.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:07 am
by Theodore01
++ Lots of chests
+(Randomization of minor elements (chests, etc.))
++ Randomization of key elements: random mass spawns, random boss-groups or boss waves..........
+ Extremely challenging combat: large open areas without many choke points. Should have some tactical usability, but also a danger to get easily surrounded.
++ environmental hazards: dead magic zones, silenced zones, slow- ,grease-zones, dispel glyphs.... )
* permadeath strike if dying there ?
++ No rest (or maybe one area depending on its size.)
+++ High bar to entry, so you can't go there often: only available once per month so people cant farm it all day. (lv 30 requirement?, available with an entry fee, available for a group of 4/6 players only.)
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:43 am
by MrSmith
gedweyignasia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:32 am
- Lots of chests
- Extremely challenging combat
- High bar to entry, so you can't go there often (e.g. remote location, only available with a quest, only available on certain days, etc.)
I can't imagine extremely challenging combat without the use of consumables. So, I second Tanluas' notion rewards are a must if a player doesn't want to go broke.
Strongly recommend: Lots of chests + Extremely challenging combat
I really like the "high bar to entry" idea... and although my personal gaming style is more soloist focused, I would suggest a traditional PnP dungeon crawl (epic traps, no-magic zones, limited to no rest areas, etc.)
where party composition is the most important element to success. Here, I would love to read RP posts on the forum about brave adventurers setting out on an epic quest only to learn "a narrow passage" in a non-magical zone prevented them from moving deeper. Prompting every subsequent group to seek a Hin or Gnome to aid them in their quest, etc.
I do not recommend the "only available on certain days" if this is tied to a specific time of the week or month. This may disenfranchise some of the player-base. Rather, I would encourage using a cooldown timer for a set period of days or weeks after successfully completing the crawl.
Strongly recommend: High bar to entry, so you can't go there often (e.g. remote location, only available with a quest,
only available on certain days, etc.)
Cheers!
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:53 am
by Steve
gedweyignasia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:02 am
So... adventure itself as a reward is a no-no?
Adventuring is truly about discovery and reward. Even if the adventuring itself didn’t return any loot, the discovery or encounter part of the adventure (or quest...) would produce a reward given by the Being that put the adventurers on their path.
This is a game called Dungeons & Dragons. Not a game called Long Hikes & Altruism.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:42 am
by Valefort
There should be no certainty that an adventure will be profitable ...
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:43 am
by Winterborne
I'm going to be that guy and say yes, adventure in and of itself is not enough of a reward. Exception being if you're only going to go there one time.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:52 am
by Ariella
Valefort wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:42 am
There should be no certainty that an adventure will be profitable ...
I disagree with this. There should always be some kind of profit be it gold, xp or character progression possible. You invest time you get a reward, nothing more annoying then having only two hours to play and it ending in a loss.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:00 am
by sir_blacksoutalot
It would take a bit more planning, but one idea is to have a storyline unfold over the course of 6 or 12 months. This plays off the idea of making the dungeon/area available for one week only every say 6 or 12 months, depending on complexity of story.
I'm always a sucker for a good storyline. Doesn't even need to be a server plot-changing story, just something fun and interesting. Could be fun for both DMs and players.
And hopefully at the end of "campaign" there would be a small reward. Not talking epic items (though not ruling out either!) but maybe custom-looking gear or a choice between three different rewards or maybe a clue to the next storyline.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:41 am
by Hoihe
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:07 am
* permadeath strike if dying there ?
++ No rest (or maybe one area depending on its size.)
We should be reducing the amount of permarisk, not increasing it.
Absolutely bloody no to this suggestion.
In fact this suggestion can go find a blackhole to deorbit into.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:51 am
by yyj
Hoihe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:41 am
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:07 am
* permadeath strike if dying there ?
++ No rest (or maybe one area depending on its size.)
We should be reducing the amount of permarisk, not increasing it.
Absolutely bloody no to this suggestion.
In fact this suggestion can go find a blackhole to deorbit into.
You can simply avoid going to risky dungeons rather than putting the character on danger?
What is the point then if there are no consecuences for risky adventuring?
Many people play on this server, and not everyone agrees to your flawed rethoric.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:37 pm
by gedweyignasia
yyj wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:51 am
Hoihe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:41 am
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:07 am
* permadeath strike if dying there ?
++ No rest (or maybe one area depending on its size.)
We should be reducing the amount of permarisk, not increasing it. Absolutely bloody no to this suggestion.
You can simply avoid going to risky dungeons rather than putting the character on danger. What is the point then if there are no consecuences for risky adventuring?
I would agree that it's not imposing upon a character to make an area which assigns permadeath strikes for deaths, since the character's visit to such an area is voluntary. This would not increase the risk to players' characters without their choice to do so, and if they are too attached to a character to retire it, this would not interfere with their roleplay. It feels like poor judgment to make such an area however, as permadeath is more of a story concern than a mechanical consideration.
I understand the desire at Lv30 to increase the stakes for a character since death does very little to punish PCs, but we don't really have the means to do so right now. For extremely dangerous content, alternatives such as permanent ability score reduction might be possible, but penalties like that are unprecedented and we'd have to debate it out among the devs and QC, then talk it over with the DM team. We can't just dream something up and throw it at players willy-nilly; we think about fairness, balance, technical issues (such as players disconnecting or dying to bugs) which might lead to players being penalized unfairly, and effectively communicating the features to players (in-game conversation warning of the risks, OOC sign by the entrance, etc).
This was just a hypothetical to illustrate a point; if you'd like to discuss it further, it is best to start another thread for that. Since we're not actively considering such mechanics at this point, please consider them off topic in this thread.
Re: Post-Lv30 Content
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:54 pm
by Hoihe
yyj wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:51 am
Hoihe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:41 am
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:07 am
* permadeath strike if dying there ?
++ No rest (or maybe one area depending on its size.)
We should be reducing the amount of permarisk, not increasing it.
Absolutely bloody no to this suggestion.
In fact this suggestion can go find a blackhole to deorbit into.
You can simply avoid going to risky dungeons rather than putting the character on danger?
What is the point then if there are no consecuences for risky adventuring?
Many people play on this server, and not everyone agrees to your flawed rethoric.
You want permadeath? Do it to yourself. The only reason people like you want it to apply to others is a desire to control and destroy others' enjoyment.
The only time permadeath should occur should be entirely by the players own REVERSIBLE CHOICE. Yes. it should be reversible if the player ever has sexond thoughts.
"Just dont go there lul" Ah yes let's set precedent where we punish players for actually RPing rather than puppeteering a bunch of dolls around claiming to be writers
gedweyignasia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:37 pm
yyj wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:51 am
Hoihe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:41 am
We should be reducing the amount of permarisk, not increasing it. Absolutely bloody no to this suggestion.
You can simply avoid going to risky dungeons rather than putting the character on danger. What is the point then if there are no consecuences for risky adventuring?
I would agree that it's not imposing upon a character to make an area which assigns permadeath strikes for deaths, since the character's visit to such an area is voluntary. This would not increase the risk to players' characters without their choice to do so, and if they are too attached to a character to retire it, this would not interfere with their roleplay. It feels like poor judgment to make such an area however, as permadeath is more of a story concern than a mechanical consideration.
I understand the desire at Lv30 to increase the stakes for a character since death does very little to punish PCs, but we don't really have the means to do so right now. For extremely dangerous content, alternatives such as permanent ability score reduction might be possible, but penalties like that are unprecedented and we'd have to debate it out among the devs and QC, then talk it over with the DM team. We can't just dream something up and throw it at players willy-nilly; we think about fairness, balance, technical issues (such as players disconnecting or dying to bugs) which might lead to players being penalized unfairly, and effectively communicating the features to players (in-game conversation warning of the risks, OOC sign by the entrance, etc).
This was just a hypothetical to illustrate a point; if you'd like to discuss it further, it is best to start another thread for that. Since we're not actively considering such mechanics at this point, please consider them off topic in this thread.
I would be fine with item loss of worn items and or of gold.
Could even not be item loss but instead an item you wear getting negative stats to make it useless except ad a memoriblia