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Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:02 pm
by PaulImposteur
Shield Bash is supposed to give a third attack at 21 BAB, I also have a bunch of shield feats, so I'm unsure why it's only doing two bashes.
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:58 am
by chad878262
Getting a third shield bash requires either:
TWF, ITWF, GTWF
or:
Shield Specialization, Shield Bash, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Weapon Focus, and Shield Weapon Specialization (which in turn requires fighter 4)
These are the only 2 ways to get 3 shield bash attacks.
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:39 am
by Theodore01
What happened to the additional BAB requirement? Why was it removed? And where is the balance in that decision ???
You gain an additional shield bash at BAB 11, and another one at BAB 21.
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:30 am
by chad878262
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:39 am
What happened to the additional BAB requirement? Why was it removed? And where is the balance in that decision ???
You gain an additional shield bash at BAB 11, and another one at BAB 21.
I suppose dedude figured that requiring GTWF or 5 shield bash feats was enough to keep it balanced. Honestly Shield Bash is a lot of code so I doubt anyone wants to go back in to it and change it again... Is it really *that* big of a deal?
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:19 pm
by ugljesa94
Hey all,
I'm gonna hijack this thread just a little bit!
Since we're discussing shield bash and its feats, I tried to make something out of it.
https://nwn2db.com/build/?332579
I made a build that i've tried to explain there but i think most people will get the point. I would like some feedback on it, it is by no means perfect, finished or polished but would love to hear what you people think. If anything is not clear, please feel free to ask!
I'd like to know how to improve on this, is this viable, has anyone done this before, any obvious weaknesses? Is AC ok for epic levels? How decent is it dmg wise, i know sword and board fighters arent supposed to dish out a lot of dmg but im hoping high str, NH mitigates that a bit?
Thanks!
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:25 pm
by PaulImposteur
Can the description be changed, I just leveled a character all the way to level 21, because of this, all orienting around shield bash. The idea that I have to go through all the grinding again really stinks because a feat isn't properly reflecting its requirements.
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:02 am
by zhazz
Much of the confusion also comes from two feats being nearly identical in their names:
- Shield Specialization: Shield
- Weapon Specialization: Shield
It is entirely possible to mix up the two, or get the order of them wrong.
A few months ago I made a Shield Bash character for a friend, who wanted to go the Shield Bash route too. Likely it can be adjusted to work as a non-Tiefling too.
https://nwn2db.com/build/?329680
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:36 pm
by ARHicks00
The unnecessary change to shield bash is why I don’t invest in shield bash anymore. 5 feats to do 3 attacks that don’t benefit from magical buffs is too much. The only two classes that can get 3 attacks are the Ranger and Fighter since the shield bash requirements are tailored to their feats, which cuts off other classes from getting full benefits. Unless i play a TWF Ranger, i will never use shield bash. In fact, i rarely seen anyone use shield bash since they nerfed it.
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:09 am
by izzul
i play shield bash currently. i like it.
im dealing 16-25 damage, 3 attacks per turn. crit 23-45 after spending 5 feats (can deal some extra spike damage if i spend more feats, or put on a shield with 1d4 acid damage.)
for me, this is the only way a direct shield+weapon PC can have more than 6 attacks/turn (6 +3 attacks) or (7 with haste +3 attacks from shield).
from the damage point of view
-its not the best but the tick is almost confirmed and promising (sometimes better than EW for damage minus the AC deduction)
-facing almost same difficulty as monk glove(minus the adamantine and blazing). if against huge DR mobs, or needing Alchemical Silver/Cold iron
-can open opportunity in the future for the creation of Adamantine/Alchemical Silver/Cold Iron shield that bypass certain monster DR during shield bashing.
(shield basher will hunt for better shields are a great way to encourage people playing and future trade amongst each other)
from the feat taxation, and attacks point of view
-i feel like its worth investing 5 feats or more for extra flavor, but the diminishing return it gives against higher DR mobs at higher lvl makes me want to reduce taking it and spend the feat elsewhere. (will do more testing after server split and choose which one i like to pick. either more bash, or less bash)
-currently, the extra attacks are very satisfying for me. it can be improved but not at the expense of being better than weapon attacks.
all in all from my opinion, i still like it the way it is. just hoping that it will be improved a bit by adding ways to bypass DR, or reducing it to 4 feats, or no changes at all is still fine for me.
Re: Bug Shield Bash
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:48 pm
by ARHicks00
izzul wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:09 am
i play shield bash currently. i like it.
im dealing 16-25 damage, 3 attacks per turn. crit 23-45 after spending 5 feats (can deal some extra spike damage if i spend more feats, or put on a shield with 1d4 acid damage.)
for me, this is the only way a direct shield+weapon PC can have more than 6 attacks/turn (6 +3 attacks) or (7 with haste +3 attacks from shield).
from the damage point of view
-its not the best but the tick is almost confirmed and promising (sometimes better than EW for damage minus the AC deduction)
-facing almost same difficulty as monk glove(minus the adamantine and blazing). if against huge DR mobs, or needing Alchemical Silver/Cold iron
-can open opportunity in the future for the creation of Adamantine/Alchemical Silver/Cold Iron shield that bypass certain monster DR during shield bashing.
(shield basher will hunt for better shields are a great way to encourage people playing and future trade amongst each other)
from the feat taxation, and attacks point of view
-i feel like its worth investing 5 feats or more for extra flavor, but the diminishing return it gives against higher DR mobs at higher lvl makes me want to reduce taking it and spend the feat elsewhere. (will do more testing after server split and choose which one i like to pick. either more bash, or less bash)
-currently, the extra attacks are very satisfying for me. it can be improved but not at the expense of being better than weapon attacks.
all in all from my opinion, i still like it the way it is. just hoping that it will be improved a bit by adding ways to bypass DR, or reducing it to 4 feats, or no changes at all is still fine for me.
Not sure how your opinion has anything to with other classes who can’t invest 5 feats since weapon specialization feats is a fighter only feat. TWF is all but useless to people who are strength based and shield bashing hit/damage is strength based. I am not knocking you for your input in anyway, but your opinion is based on solely one class run. As it stands, the new requirements not only limit the shield bash gameplay to two classes (regardless of what class you decide to heavily invest in), but this is big nerf melee wise.
The shield bash nerf not a bad thing, but it is not a good thing either. Its just unnecessary add on.
FYI, a pure fighter can get 1d6 + 30 per tower shield bash (31 to 36) and a Ranger can get 1d4 + 27 heavy shield bash + 3d6 bane of enemies. (31 to 49)
Note: I haven’t played a epic ranger in a while.