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Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:07 pm
by DreadArtemis
A lot of going back and forth on what I want to play again. Played around with a few things and this is one I came up with.
Looking for a bot of critique. I know the obvious caster level flaws but this should work as far as AC and Melee goes.
Was looking for something silly and different and this might just be it.
https://nwn2db.com/builder/?id=334306
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:18 pm
by yyj
The problem with this build is that the caster level is very low and will get dispelled very easily, I would recommend either just going for divine casting or for arcane casting but not both at the same time.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:24 pm
by DreadArtemis
Yeah the caster level is pretty much easily dispelled by anything. I enjoy the extra skill points, the bardic extras, and EDM with the str. Was looking for an arcane/ divine blend to get near full BAB while still having some spells.
I tinkered with an EDM rogue/cleric, although I know that almost full caster level is needed. I decided to forgo worrying about a higher caster level and focusing on the melee aspect.
I will toy around with a few other things. Was hoping some type of theurge would be on this server, although obviously that would be powerful heh
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:27 pm
by Svabodnik
If you are to build on NWN2DB for this server, I'd recommend using the Game Version: Kaedrin's Class Pack option, since it does include quite a few of the custom classes in use here (for the example most pertinent for this build, Hospitaler). It does require some double-checking between what is available here specifically and Kaedrin's own additions, but for the most part should be closer in options than base NWN2.
Since you've already mentioned the potential problems with CL (due to this, I would honestly recommend a Practiced Spellcaster pickup for either Cleric or Bard, preferably both), I'd also mention that you'd likely get more milage out of grabbing up Northlander Hewing for the sword/shield usage rather than Improved Power Attack. If I were to personally go for this kind of a character build, I'd use the empty feat at 15 (don't see a note on what it's supposed to be in the Build Info notes) and IPA/Epic Prowess for those three feats instead (Practiced Spellcaster (Bard), Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), Northlander Hewing) as I see them as being of a higher priority.
EDIT: For a minor tweak, I'd rather go Bard 8/EK 8 rather than Bard 7/EK 9. Would have the same BAB and CL in the end, but more skillpoints, bardic music, and will bump up Inspire Courage to +2.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:34 pm
by DreadArtemis
Svabodnik wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:27 pm
If you are to build on NWN2DB for this server, I'd recommend using the Game Version: Kaedrin's Class Pack option, since it does include quite a few of the custom classes in use here (for the example most pertinent for this build, Hospitaler). It does require some double-checking between what is available here specifically and Kaedrin's own additions, but for the most part should be closer in options than base NWN2.
Since you've already mentioned the potential problems with CL (due to this, I would honestly recommend a Practiced Spellcaster pickup for either Cleric or Bard, preferably both), I'd also mention that you'd likely get more milage out of grabbing up Northlander Hewing for the sword/shield usage rather than Improved Power Attack. If I were to personally go for this kind of a character build, I'd use the empty feat at 15 (don't see a note on what it's supposed to be in the Build Info notes) and IPA/Epic Prowess for those three feats instead (Practiced Spellcaster (Bard), Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), Northlander Hewing) as I see them as being of a higher priority.
EDIT: For a minor tweak, I'd rather go Bard 8/EK 8 rather than Bard 7/EK 9. Would have the same BAB and CL in the end, but more skillpoints, bardic music, and will bump up Inspire Courage to +2.
AH! I thought I already had bard 8, the test build on JEGS I have level 8 bard.
The northlander hewing suggestion is a great idea rather than improved power attack. I will likely swap that out.
I didnt see the reason to include practiced spellcaster because the levels were already so low. Do you think for the feats invested in them the 4 level difference will be worth it?
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:43 pm
by Svabodnik
Since the spellcasting will be predominantly buff-focused, the extra four CL to either class will be either an extra 4 minutes or 24 seconds of the buffs running (for minute/CL and round/CL buffs, respectively), and about a +20% increase in resisting a dispel. As the Cleric CL is already rather low, and with a few more minutes of thought, maybe grabbing up Extend Spell for the Bard buffs may work better than Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)? The boosted bard Haste and Displacement duration at CL 24 x 2 (almost 5 minutes each with Extend Spell) would help out quite a bit, and would also give the option of an Extended Divine Favor at CL 9 Cleric (+3 damage/AB for two minutes).
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:46 pm
by DreadArtemis
Made the adjustments to the Kaedrin pack, and updated feats.
I still get to keep IPA as I get a bonus feat from Hospitaler. Added on NH as the level 18 feat, and added practiced spellcasters.
I know the spells will be easily dispelled, but he is still a beast in melee (albeit a significant xp penalty)
I couldnt make the numbers work with human or else I would have stayed with one of them.
I suppose I could drop extra turning and try to nab it off an item in lieu of extend spell, and still keep practiced spellcaster.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:00 pm
by Svabodnik
Given that one of the primary selling points of such a split would be the EDM access, I honestly can't assess if Extend Spell for buffs or Extra Turning for more EDM uses would offer a more enjoyable play experience. Each would have their own distinct benefits. As mentioned before, since Cleric CL won't be high enough to benefit the usual CL-scaling cleric buffs (Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Conviction, Shield of Faith) and even with Practiced Spellcaster it won't be hitting the magic number of 15 in order to become immune to Lesser Dispel, it's quite possible Extend Spell may be a worthwhile pickup over Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), especially for the Extended Divine Favor uses. On the other hand, an extra four minutes of Bless and Aid/Mass Aid can add up to their own benefit in the long run. Would need an extensive playtest to say much more rather than just basic theory-crafting.
EDIT: On the more recently linked build, would go Cleric 4/Hospitaler 10 rather than Cleric 5/Hospitaler 9, for the BAB. Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric) can be taken on a non-cleric level, if that was the worry.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:10 pm
by DreadArtemis
I think I will roll with both extend spell and practiced spellcaster. The primary pull was high attack bonus with available buffs when I needed them. I could always dump the heavy cleric investment, although that was a primary draw for extra spells and healing and the like. I toyed with the notion of dropping excess cleric levels and having only 4 cleric for EDM and filling the rest with some kind of full BAB complimentary PRC. Jury is still out. At this point, I have a guy I can use to RCR since I havent played in years into probably 10th or 11th level.
Thank you so much for the input. I will mull it over and see what other options I have available.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm
by Svabodnik
Another thing worth considering, since you make the INT feat prerequisite and mentioned some concern over AC, is opting for Combat Expertise over Improved Power Attack. Combat Expertise and (Improved) Power Attack are exclusive in their use, but either can work concurrently with Northlander Hewing (and CE can help compensate for NH AC loss quite a bit). Given the AB of certain Epic Level bosses, the staying power of CE isn't something to be understated, but it's another give-and-take option - something to mull over, rather than an obvious decision.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:50 pm
by Zkenic
In all honesty, assuming you avoid zones with dispels this build will have no problem handling PvE. Even in dispelable zones, you will be walking around with 41 AB (27BaB+2bardsong+8strength+4enhancement). With +4 gear and CE, you should have enough AC to also manage without buffs. Not a powerbuild, but on this server you dont need to powergame for most of the content.
Obviously for efficiency it would be better to do something like 20bard/3cleric/7EK, if you were determined to have those three classes. 4bard/6cleric/10Hospitaler/10Heirophant gets you CL 29 with bard dip and hospitaler.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:15 pm
by DreadArtemis
Zkenic wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:50 pm
In all honesty, assuming you avoid zones with dispels this build will have no problem handling PvE. Even in dispelable zones, you will be walking around with 41 AB (27BaB+2bardsong+8strength+4enhancement). With +4 gear and CE, you should have enough AC to also manage without buffs. Not a powerbuild, but on this server you dont need to powergame for most of the content.
Obviously for efficiency it would be better to do something like 20bard/3cleric/7EK, if you were determined to have those three classes. 4bard/6cleric/10Hospitaler/10Heirophant gets you CL 29 with bard dip and hospitaler.
Was considering something like that, but i wont be able to qualify for hierophant on the basis on not having 7th level spells in time for the 3b20
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:56 pm
by Theodore01
If you want to cast your bard spells in combat, you need to take battlecaster.
AC is also quite low.
Would go for CE and Athktatlan Triparite, but with the latter been nerfed for casters (will instantly deactivate upon casting any spell) - not sure it's useful here.
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:04 pm
by DreadArtemis
Theodore01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:56 pm
If you want to cast your bard spells in combat, you need to take battlecaster.
AC is also quite low.
Would go for CE and Athktatlan Triparite, but with the latter been nerfed for casters (will instantly deactivate upon casting any spell) - not sure it's useful here.
AC = 47 (+6 shield, +3 tumble, +3 dex, +12 mithril full plate, +1 luck of heroes, +4 natural, +4 deflection, +4 dodge, 10 base) unbuffed. That is low here? I also have divine shield when needed. Not sure what else I can use,
Thats a fair point on battle caster, I will need to jumble something around then.
I have been working on a different version that uses more bard, with a bit better caster level. Will post it once I'm done.
Thannks all for the suggestions so far!
Re: Silly Melee build
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:15 am
by Theodore01
AC 47 (-2 with NH) is not high for any melee char.
Displacement + mirrors help as long as it lasts..., DS is also only 8 rounds.
Natural Leader works as such: -1 to all your saves +1 to AB for all your summons and companions.
Other PC's do not fall under these categories and as such do not benefit from the feat.