Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

You have a concept.

You read d20SRB/PhB/DMG for details to figure out how to make a build that justifies the concept. This includes getting skill ranks within a certain range of DC to guarantee or make success more likely.

You concede that the DCs are "Ideal situations", and refer to diplomacy/Scrying/teleport rolls to figure out how un-ideal situations may affect the skill rolls. You plan your build around non-ideal situations that make sense.

You decide what makes sense by asking the following questions:

1. Would a level 0 commoner be able to do this?
2. If not, would a level 4 commoner be able to do this? (adjust for 8 so it's in line with BG having adventurers at level 15 x 2)
3. If not, would a level 0 Expert/Adept/Warrior/Aristocrat be able to do this?
4. If not, would a level 4 Expert/Adept/Warrior/Aristocrat be able to do this? (adjust for 8)
6. If not, would a level 1 Adventurer classed character be able to do this? (adjust to 2)
7. If not, would a level 4 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (adjust to 8)
8. If not, would a level 8 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (adjust to 16)
9. If not, would a level 15 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (Adjust to 30)
10. If not, would a level 20 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (Adjust to 40)

Make the following assumptions to answer the above:

1. The world is inhabited primarily by level 0 commoners who do things just fine
2. Level 4 commoners tend to be veterans at their professions
3. Level 0 specialists tend to be the second most common, and represent the majority of craftsmen/skilled labourers/scholars
4. Level 4 Specialists tend to be guild masters, senior scholars, high ranking millitary officers, what have you
5. A level 1 adventurer is relatively common, but tend to be able to accomplish more than most people.
6. A level 4 adventurer is still relatively common, but are rarely hindered by mundane aspects of life. Instead, they are able to survive sub-optimal circumnstances (think Army Rangers/Delta Force being trained to go days with barely no sleep and still do their job)
7. A level 8 adventurer is prepared to deal with extraoridinary matters. The only thing that will throw them off is doing things in the heat of combat, having no equipment AND bad environmental conditions. These guys are elites.
8. A level 15 adventurer does things that are the stuff of legends. A level 15 adventurer will somehow be able to find a hidden uncharted island working off of legends and hearsay and minimal data provided by poor weather conditions, broken instruments and such. They will not succeed always, but they have a good chance to do so. Doing a practised thing in poor conditions does not affect their chance of success.
9. A level 20 adventurer does what a level 15 does, except with much higher certainity. It also tends into mythical qualities, the stuff that greeks tell of their greatest heroes.

For the above, use the following rules depending on intended safety margin:
If NOT using the assumption that the world is twice its power level/PCs are half their own:

• For a level 0 Commoner, DC of 10 is the highest due to being untrained. Anything above DC 10 is very unlikely, unless training is not required for the skill or it's a safe. However, the idea remains that DC of 5 is realistic, 10 is possible, 15 is unlikely, 20 is lucky.
• For a level 0 specialist, adjust all DCs by 2-6 depending on stat spread. I'd go with 5 (full investment and ability affinity)
• For a level 4 commoner, DCs may be higher by 2-3 (assume cross-class/low int/1 ability affinity)
• For a level 4 specialist, Commoner 0 DCs may be increased by 5-9 (depending on stat spread, assuming class skill).
• For a level 1-4 adventurer, use specialist values, but tend towards higher due to stat affinity
• For a level 8 adventurer, take commoner 0 values and add 11 and stat affinity of 3 (+14)
• For level 15, take commoner 0 values and add 18 and stat affinity of 4 (+22)
• For level 20, take commoner 0 and add 23 and stat affinity of 5 (+28)

IF using the 2X assumption.

• For a level 0 commoner, values are the same. 5 for easy, 10 for possible, 15 for unlikely, 20 for lucky
• For level 0 specialist, values are the same (add 2-6 to commoner 0)
• For level 4 commoner (8), take commoner 0 and add 5 (cross class) and affinity of 1 (+6)
• For level 4 specialist (8), take commoner 0 and add 11 (class) and affinity of 2 (+13)
• For adventurer 1-4 (2-8), do as level 4 specialist, but affinity +1 compared to specialist for apporpriate. (+14 at 4)
• For adventurer 8 (16), take commoner 0 and add 19 to the DC for class skill and affinity of 4 (+25)
• For adventurer of 15 (30), take commoner 0 and add 33 and affinity of 6 (39)
• For adventurer of 20 (40), take commoner 0 and add 43 and affinity of 8 (51)

As long as the DMs keep in mind the probability of an NPC needing to do the same task, and what kind of NPC succeeding at it, DCs will remain normal.

It's an intuitive system that doesn't need looking at d20srd if the complaint is "it crashed the DM client to alt tab".

• A challenge that puts one encounters every day would be aimed at a commoner 0.
• A challenge that puts an average working NPC to the test would be aimed at specialist 0.
• A challenge that puts an experienced commoner to the test would be at commoner 4
• A challenge that requires a talented specialist with decades of experience would be at specialist 4
• A Challenge that puts Theseus/Odysseus to the test would be aimed at Adventurer 8
• A challenge that puts Orion to the test would be aimed at Adventurer 15.
• A challenge that puts Achilles/Heracles to the test would be aimed at adventurer 20.

Now think about the ridiculous DCs some DMs give (fit for Achilles/Heracles) for tasks that random NPCs do day to day (which they succeed at, otherwise society would fall apart).


Codify the above so that everyone can look at it and then assign their skill points/saves according to what they want their character to accomplish. Most will safely be able to aim at the "Army Ranger/Delta Force" level of specialist/adventurer 4 (8) and safely justify their RP.

Those who want herculean achievements (say, swaying an entire city with a moving speech) will have to pass a ridiculous DC - but such is acceptable. Furthermore, hidden modifiers can still exists as long as they make sense and are communicated somehow (especially for diplomacy, where the original opinion heavily influences the result. The same roll that makes a hostile person indifferent will make the indifferent person ready to die for your ideals.)

Difficulty Class
Some checks are made against a Difficulty Class (DC). The DC is a number (set using the skill rules as a guideline) that you must score as a result on your skill check in order to succeed.

Table: Difficulty Class Examples
Difficulty (DC) Example (Skill Used)

• Very easy (0) Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
• Easy (5) Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
• Average (10) Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
• Tough (15) Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
• Challenging (20) Swim in stormy water (Swim)
• Formidable (25) Open an average lock (Open Lock)
• Heroic (30) Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
• Nearly Impossible(40) Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

Favorable And Unfavorable Conditions
Some situations may make a skill easier or harder to use, resulting in a bonus or penalty to the skill modifier for a skill check or a change to the DC of the skill check.

The chance of success can be altered in four ways to take into account exceptional circumstances.

Give the skill user a +2 circumstance bonus to represent conditions that improve performance, such as having the perfect tool for the job, getting help from another character (see Combining Skill Attempts), or possessing unusually accurate information.
Give the skill user a -2 circumstance penalty to represent conditions that hamper performance, such as being forced to use improvised tools or having misleading information.
Reduce the DC by 2 to represent circumstances that make the task easier, such as having a friendly audience or doing work that can be subpar.
Increase the DC by 2 to represent circumstances that make the task harder, such as having an uncooperative audience or doing work that must be flawless.
Conditions that affect your character’s ability to perform the skill change the skill modifier. Conditions that modify how well the character has to perform the skill to succeed change the DC. A bonus to the skill modifier and a reduction in the check’s DC have the same result: They create a better chance of success. But they represent different circumstances, and sometimes that difference is important.

Steve wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:53 pm

Difficulty Class
Some checks are made against a Difficulty Class (DC). The DC is a number (set using the skill rules as a guideline) that you must score as a result on your skill check in order to succeed.

Table: Difficulty Class Examples
Difficulty (DC) Example (Skill Used)

• Very easy (0) Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
• Easy (5) Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
• Average (10) Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
• Tough (15) Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
• Challenging (20) Swim in stormy water (Swim)
• Formidable (25) Open an average lock (Open Lock)
• Heroic (30) Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
• Nearly Impossible(40) Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

Favorable And Unfavorable Conditions
Some situations may make a skill easier or harder to use, resulting in a bonus or penalty to the skill modifier for a skill check or a change to the DC of the skill check.

The chance of success can be altered in four ways to take into account exceptional circumstances.

Give the skill user a +2 circumstance bonus to represent conditions that improve performance, such as having the perfect tool for the job, getting help from another character (see Combining Skill Attempts), or possessing unusually accurate information.
Give the skill user a -2 circumstance penalty to represent conditions that hamper performance, such as being forced to use improvised tools or having misleading information.
Reduce the DC by 2 to represent circumstances that make the task easier, such as having a friendly audience or doing work that can be subpar.
Increase the DC by 2 to represent circumstances that make the task harder, such as having an uncooperative audience or doing work that must be flawless.
Conditions that affect your character’s ability to perform the skill change the skill modifier. Conditions that modify how well the character has to perform the skill to succeed change the DC. A bonus to the skill modifier and a reduction in the check’s DC have the same result: They create a better chance of success. But they represent different circumstances, and sometimes that difference is important.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/using ... cultyClass

Blackman D wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:15 pmi know one thing that aggravates a lot of the DMs are people who say they wanna do x and then roll thinkin the DM will fill in the blanks for them, versus saying i wanna do x and im gonna do y, z, and a little bit of c, d, and k for it and see how it goes and then roll, basically give the DMs something to work with, and ive never had issues or seen issues when its done anything close to that