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Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:00 pm
by Kitunenotsume
I figure this is a bug one way or the other:
When I leveled my Hunter-kit ranger, at level 5, I gained a new Favored Enemy selection from Ranger, and the [Favored Enemy Selection] feat from my hunter class-kit.
During the level-up menu, all 3 Hunter Trap feats were available along with all the favored enemy feats.
However, when I use the [Favored Enemy Selection] feat dialog, I am only able to choose between either Normal FEs or improved FEs, with no Hunter Trap selection.
Either Hunter Trap feats are erroneously marked as FE selections (But I suspect are intended to count), or the FE selection feat should include Hunter Trap feats (Which is probably the correct resolution).
Re: Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:22 pm
by EasternCheesE
We will try to reproduce it in nearest future and, if there is no workaround, mark it for Devs to fix.
Re: Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:41 pm
by EasternCheesE
Hi there. Upon checking, it was totally correct, not hunter trap feats.
Though, as it's stated on wiki and in-game description, "- Bonus Feats: The hunter adds a number of trap-enhancing choices to the ranger's bonus-feat-list."
Thus, it's how it's designed in first place. if you feel that feat should allow to pick those, please post it to suggestions instead
Re: Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:52 pm
by Kitunenotsume
FE selection is not bonus feats.
However, Hunter Trap Feats are available when receiving Favored Enemy selections during level up. It is currently a list of every favored enemy, appropriate improved favored enemies, and hunter trap feats.
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:00 pm
Either Hunter Trap feats are erroneously marked as FE selections, or the FE selection feat should include Hunter Trap feats.
Regardless of which is correct, the other is inconsistent. This cannot be declared 'working as intended' unless Hunter traps are both valid Favored Enemy Selections and not valid Favored Enemy Selections simultaniously.
Re: Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:21 pm
by EasternCheesE
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:52 pm
FE selection is not bonus feats.
However, Hunter Trap Feats are available when receiving Favored Enemy selections during level up. It is currently a list of every favored enemy, appropriate improved favored enemies, and hunter trap feats.
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:00 pm
Either Hunter Trap feats are erroneously marked as FE selections, or the FE selection feat should include Hunter Trap feats.
Regardless of which is correct, the other is inconsistent. This cannot be declared 'working as intended' unless Hunter traps are both valid Favored Enemy Selections and not valid Favored Enemy Selections simultaniously.
I believe, it's more a matter of semantics in this one. In my view, favored enemies are ranger bonus feats which exist in ranger bonus feat list since those feats selections are granted additionally to regular feat levels, much like fighter bonus feat list. Even if it's not named as "bonus feats", but named "Favored enemies". Thus, i see having trap feats in this list as something correct. Sadly, we can't ask Rasael about how it was supposed to be, so, what we can do is to correct wiki to make it unambiguous about those trap feats being granted on ranger favored enemies feat picks or raise a suggestion to add trap feats to Hunter extra favored enemy pick feat too.
Which one you prefer?
Re: Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:32 pm
by Kitunenotsume
Per the class definition, Ranger gets "Bonus Feats" at level 23, 26, and 29.
This is different from "Favored Enemy", which is available every 4 levels, and cannot be taken as general feats.
Calling a class ability a bonus feat a false premise, unless every class decision is considered a Bonus Feat (since NWN2 treats every class ability as feats).
If it is to be removed, it should be.
If Hunters are intended to gain the ability to use traps early on, then traps should be a valid Favored Enemy selection through all means of gaining favored enemies - including the Favored Enemy selection feat.
Per your own claim, you cannot ask the initial designer how it was intentionally designed, so your claim that it was designed that way and merits a suggestion thread of its own to change the functionality is invalidated.
EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:41 pm
Thus, it's how it's designed in first place.
EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:21 pm
Sadly, we can't ask Rasael about how it was supposed to be
Thus it is a discussion for staff, as QC and developers, as to which interpretation is the one to stick with.
Re: Unable to take Trap feats from FE selection feat
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:36 pm
by EasternCheesE
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:32 pm
Per the class definition, Ranger gets "Bonus Feats" at level 23, 26, and 29.
This is different from "Favored Enemy", which is available every 4 levels, and cannot be taken as general feats.
Calling a class ability a bonus feat a false premise, unless every class decision is considered a Bonus Feat (since NWN2 treats every class ability as feats).
If it is to be removed, it should be.
If Hunters are intended to gain the ability to use traps early on, then traps should be a valid Favored Enemy selection through all means of gaining favored enemies - including the Favored Enemy selection feat.
Per your own claim, you cannot ask the initial designer how it was intentionally designed, so your claim that it was designed that way and merits a suggestion thread of its own to change the functionality is invalidated.
Thus it is a discussion for staff, as QC and developers, as to which interpretation is the one to stick with.
That's why i clearly said "in my view". I don't see it as a problem with it being available among ranger FE selection while not being available from Hunter FE feat and i simply consider that being a misworded description rather than mechanical oversight.
But, if you believe it should be in different way, then, please, post it as suggestions forum and i surely will drag it to QC forums for discussion and dev decision on it.