Hierophant WIS requirement

[mrm3ntalist]

I was looking to optimize a build of mine (https://nwn2db.com/build/?261227) that got Hierophant with 15WIS and I realized - thankfully before rcring - that the Hierophant Prc has a WIS requirement of 19(???). What is the reason for that? Is there a chance for this to be reverted?

Now other than grandfathered items we have grandfathered builds

[Deathgrowl]

As I recall from QC at the time, there was a desire among Dev and QC to pull the Hierophant class towards more spell focused builds, rather than having it used so much for gish style builds.

If Dev and QC feels differently about it now, I don't know. I think it was a sensible change.

[izzul]

There was something wonky few years ago when i play Hierophant
i only have 15 wisdom base +4(gear). its a CL30 Hierophant ex: cleric13/10Hiero/7weaponmaster, and another one CL32 ex: cleric5/Hiero10/5weaponmaster

as soon as the announcement of the requirement, i RCR it into something else.

could someone in game check if they can still take Hierophant if they have 19 wisdom(15+4gear) ?

[mrm3ntalist]

I don’t understand this. Clerics by concept and mechanics are not just casters of meleers. They are both. Mechanically a cleric cannot be just a caster because of a limited spell book when compared to other casters (ie arcane) especially regarding controlling spells. That is why clerics have medium bab buffing spells for himself and nearby allies etc

Other than that I don’t see what this change can prevent mechanically other than limit build variety

[Ewe]

Just FYI, as to when it happened, it was posted in 2019 as listed in Coming Soon section:
https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=496&t=70031

[Deathgrowl]

Mechanically a cleric cannot be just a caster because of a limited spell book when compared to other casters (ie arcane) especially regarding controlling spells.

I'm doing pretty fine with my cleric of Mystra, actually.

[mrm3ntalist]

Mechanically a cleric cannot be just a caster because of a limited spell book when compared to other casters (ie arcane) especially regarding controlling spells.

I'm doing pretty fine with my cleric of Mystra, actually.

I dont question that. On the opposite, it is nice that you get to play a build you enjoy. Why limit this to Wis19+ builds only though? Let other builds enjoy this PRC as well

[Xorena]

could someone in game check if they can still take Hierophant if they have 19 wisdom(15+4gear) ?

You cannot.

[EasternCheesE]

As it was mentioned, it was upped because it was a no-brainer choice for most of cleric builds before, thus, pushing people to get "fighter" for clerics in order to get tons of metamagic.

As it's stated from PrC description:
Hierophants are higher members of clergy and druidic circles who decide to temporarily forgo gaining the highest levels of divine magic in order to concentrate on the mastery of what they already possess.

Higher members means "very dedicated into cleric/druid class" in my view, thus, i see it being normal to have high requirements, especially since you get 5 magic feats for 10 levels and full caster progression (not even mentioning some of those Hierophant feats are very strong).
Hierophant is much like archmage for divine, having powerful things with high requirements.

I believe, DMs can explain it better lorewise how becoming recognized as very powerful cleric or druid requires one to be devoted into their primary class.

[mrm3ntalist]

So this was a restriction based on lore and how the wisdom translates into how devoted a cleric is?

Anyway, it sounds legit. I already have my now grandfathered build so i wont waste more of your time. You can archive this

[EasternCheesE]

Well, one can't get high into ranks without being wise, right ?

[Rhifox]

We could just use pnp mechanics and have Hierophant only boost CL, not provide spell progression? Though that doesn't hurt it all that much in a 30-cap environment.

[mrm3ntalist]

Well, one can't get high into ranks without being wise, right ?

touché

[Ewe]

I think before the change, if you were a cleric, you took Hierophant. There was no good reason not to take it, it was just mechanically the best option. I think the story and RP of the PRC kind of took a hit from this. So while it may seem like it's "limiting" builds it's actually reducing pressure to feel forced to taking this PRC, thus increasing choice?

[whatsittoya]

It's an indirect way of increasing the viability of alternatives.