Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Simple question, does sacred fist levels count for the wisdom to AB feat intuitive attack?

I believe only actual monk levels will qualify.

They don't count.

I see, I suppose it's not allowed to avoid the combinations of WIS monk/clerics using hierophant and SF to get 30 CL?

It's just been that way since the original design of the feat before I even started here, you need 2/3rds real monk levels for it to activate. I'm not sure what the specific reasoning was but it predates me.

Technically, PnP-cally, in the Book of Exalted Deeds, Intuitive Attack is a General Fighter feat, with the only Req being AB +1. That means no Monk levels needed at all!

Wasn’t Intuitive Attack from an early Kaedrin Pack? So maybe he scripted it that way? Regardless, there was some anti-OP logic about the 2/3rd req. of Monk, when it was implemented here…I just can’t remember why.

But is a Monk 17 / Cleric 3 / Sacred Fist 10 more powerful than a Monk 20 / Cleric 3 / SF 7? Or Monk 4 / Cleric 6 / SF 10 / Hierophant 10 for CL 30? Or Monk 6 / Cleric 6 / SF 8 / Hierophant 8??

It would also open up a non-Monk Intuitive Attack Fighter/Fist of the Forest build.

Ah! I think I remember now! Intuitive Attack required Monk do that you couldn’t use it with….wait for it…Druid.

I think the main reason is that you could then not see any pure monks.

If the unarmed dmg is added as well, you could get 27 monk dmg and STILL be able to cast divine spells.

Endelyon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:55 pmIt's just been that way since the original design of the feat before I even started here, you need 2/3rds real monk levels for it to activate. I'm not sure what the specific reasoning was but it predates me.

You just need to think about of the countless divine spellcasting builds that used to get 30 BAB from Divine Power, and would have then gained their +12 wisdom Modifier to AB. Now, I believe the AB cap of 20 would have still applied, but nevertheless: extra +5 from Greater Magic Weapon, +3 from Divine favour and you will sit at 50 AB and six attacks per round, with the usual spells to increase your damage per hit, making use of any weapon with elemental damage, while sitting inside your high DC Storm of Vengeance, throwing out your occasional casts of Implosion, etc, etc. If you mix in little bit of Monk for that wisdom based AC, you would literally get everything from just a single ability score. Thus, for a very long time any suggestion to get this feat added was simple and resounding "NO."

As for the early Kaedrin feat, it actually was pretty much the same as the PnP feat. Thus the server's eventual implementation of the Intuitive Attack is entirely homebrewed, it even used a different icon than the one added by Kaedrin's pack. How do I know all this? Well, you can think about that.

The argument on it went back and forth, and for years, until the staff eventually agreed that maybe Monks should have access to it -- because at the time: dexterity based Shadowdancer Monks were pretty much the only monk builds anyone would be adviced to use. If you wanted to make a wisdom based monk, you gained access to Blazing Aura, but your AB would be rubbish as a result. Back then the Blazing Aura wisdom requirement had not even been lowered from 25 to 23. Thus eventually someone -- the pages of history will wonder who -- suggested that the Intuive Attack feat should require a certain amount of Monk levels in order to work at all. There was some back and forth, from 1/3, 1/2, 3/4, until 2/3 seemed to satisfy the most server balance concerns. Thus you had to have 2/3 of your HD as Monk for the feat to work at all, which also allowed for Monk 20/Cleric 3/Sacred Fist 7 builds. The feat only worked with fists in the beginning, but because it was a feat intended for the use of monks, eventually the other melee based monk weapons were added as well.

I guess the above sums it up, it was implemented as it is due to server balance concerns. Because honestly, if there is one feat that all wisdom based divine casters love even in PnP, it is Intuitive Attack. It is just that good.