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group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:23 am
by mixafix
I play with group of 4 mostly get wiped facing bosses and looking for some group ideas, skills and items clues to take them on. Our previous builds have been rp led and fare well on server but not with bosses.
Here are some group ideas, based on our pnp journey, needing fleshed out and will pick one to take forward in more detail.
so ideally looking for help with a good combination of builds, with any must have classes etc. Can likely find the detail on the builder.
Hips based group, what are the options to make them a good group
Knightly type group
Warlock/witch type group
Classic pnp of mixed classes, rp wise likely led by a leader type.
Any ideas appreciated. Our defeats may be down to lack of items or must haves to defeat said bosses, but mostly we fail.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 am
by yyj
Bring a dwarf, that will solve everything.
But on serious note, depends on the bosses, I noticed that some bosses you can tank using displacement + mirror image + damage reduction and heals plus keeping those buffs up, especially mirror and displacement.
None of the builds I play can tank a boss without using a lot of consumables and they even do less damage.
I think bards and warlocks are very good at killing bosses because they have the tools I mentioned up, and can do it themselves (other classes can do but not many are as good as warlocks and bards at doing it) ans other classes depend on party composition.
Consumables are needed I think to kill bosses always unless you have a very optimized build.
And feel free to invite me to go hunting bosses It's a lot of fun! Always ready to help.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:53 am
by EasternCheesE
mixafix wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:23 am
I play with group of 4 mostly get wiped facing bosses and looking for some group ideas, skills and items clues to take them on. Our previous builds have been rp led and fare well on server but not with bosses.
Here are some group ideas, based on our pnp journey, needing fleshed out and will pick one to take forward in more detail.
so ideally looking for help with a good combination of builds, with any must have classes etc. Can likely find the detail on the builder.
Hips based group, what are the options to make them a good group
Knightly type group
Warlock/witch type group
Classic pnp of mixed classes, rp wise likely led by a leader type.
Any ideas appreciated. Our defeats may be down to lack of items or must haves to defeat said bosses, but mostly we fail.
Your group tactics greatly depend on what exact bosses you try to approach and kill. Back in the UD, having 2 rogues and 1 rogue/wizard (who worked as tank cause greater invis + mirrors) allowed us to kill many things quite fast and easy, including pit fiend. If you aim for hipsing party, you gotta work as team to time your hips right so you spread the damage while everyone still can hips for their own dmg.
And, honestly, a classic group of a wizard/cleric (buffs/healing), ranger, tank (fighter/maa) and rogue can wipe almost anything on this server.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:00 am
by mixafix
Should have said this is a surface group. It is about hopefully a themed group, but a group, can help each other defeat/take on bosses.
Ran or bled like a broken party from
Fields of Dead dragon
Fire Demon
Fire cave boss
Frost Giant
probably others..
so looking for a combination can challenge them (among other goals)
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 am
by Deathgrowl
In order to help you, it would perhaps be useful to know where your failures are. I've soloed the frost giant king with several quite subpar characters (rogue16/whirling dervish4/shadowdancer10 being one of them, and using fairly little UMD), so he's not all that difficult.
If you are a somewhat intelligence based wizard - you don't even have to be DC focused - you can probably kill the frost giant king in 4-5 rounds with energy drain a few times and then a finger of death.
Anyways, in order to give good advice, what troubles are you running into? Dispels? Too much damage to manage? Cloud spell effects not being moved out of?
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:59 am
by mastajabba
We do a lot of patrol RP in this server and here is my fav mix. Of these types, I love when people have complementing characters that together become a wrecking ball than a gaggle of Uber PVE builds
Favored Soul Tank/Buff Spells
Rogue Sneak attack Dmg/ Chest traps
Cleric keep us alive/buffs
Sneak archer flavor
MAA tank-crowd Control
Bards flavor buffs and debuffs dmg
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:18 am
by mixafix
Difficult to define a particular flaw as the bosses are of course different. But generally getting stripped of defences, and mostly getting damage deaths before can do enough damage. Mostly been killing bosses by bashing.
current make up is 2 warriors (I think they are generally ok but take too much damage maybe endless healing is needed and we just have not realised how much) and cleric mix, and wizard/rogue mix. Neither with high dc or particularly good at this end of game, ie bosses. But otherwise the mix is fine and complimentary.
I think from others comments and experience 4 should be doable most places, but choice of attack may be the thing then.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:33 am
by Hoihe
What cl does the cleric/wizard have?
Ideally you have maximum cl for your level (N/N rather than N-y/N).
For your warriors going down too fast, they need AC of 55-60 after buffs. Ideally more for bosses, or UMD to apply mirror image.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:49 am
by mixafix
Think off hand ac was into 50's for fighters so will try and eke a little more there.
Any current cleric builds that retain cl) worthy of mention - does not seem to be many current to find?
does Arcane trickster retain wizard cl? or dagger mage?
any specific tactic ideas for individual bosses? (this may be where we are missing a trick)
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:29 am
by DaloLorn
mixafix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:49 am
Think off hand ac was into 50's for fighters so will try and eke a little more there.
Any current cleric builds that retain cl) worthy of mention - does not seem to be many current to find?
does Arcane trickster retain wizard cl? or dagger mage?
any specific tactic ideas for individual bosses? (this may be where we are missing a trick)
Arcane Tricksters have full spell progression,
but none of the prerequisite sneak classes do. You'll need to take no more than 4 levels in your sneak class in order for Practiced Spellcaster to offset the CL loss.
Daggerspell Mages have 9/10 spell progression, but still require Sneak Attack. You'll need to take no more than 3 levels in your sneak class in order for Practiced Spellcaster to offset the CL loss for a Daggerspell Mage.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am
by mixafix
Thanks all for the ideas so far.
Currently looking at 2/3 monks with perhaps some mix class, and a spell support. Any thoughts appreciated. Can monks battle Bosses? Best single spell support?
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:55 am
by MrSmith
mixafix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am
Thanks all for the ideas so far.
Currently looking at 2/3 monks with perhaps some mix class, and a spell support. Any thoughts appreciated. Can monks battle Bosses? Best single spell support?
I've played a couple of Wisdom-based monks to 30th levels and was really impressed with their overall performance until I wasn't. What we discovered was Monk's do not retain all of their AC when caught flat-footed (~-27AC offset). So, when fighting mobs you tend to get hit a lot even with an AC in the mid-60s+. Conversely, ThePaganKing created a monk build to remove the base class's inherent weaknesses... and while the AC does not come close to what you could achieve with a pure wisdom-based monk build, my personal experience is that TPK's build is infinitely stronger and more survivable. The key to the build is Epic Dodge. So, at the 27th level, my Hin Fist Monk can battle bosses far better than my intuitive strike monk could with 30th levels. Are there trade-offs? Sure, I do not have the SR and am more susceptible to magic.
Cheers!
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:17 pm
by Hoihe
MrSmith wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:55 am
mixafix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am
Thanks all for the ideas so far.
Currently looking at 2/3 monks with perhaps some mix class, and a spell support. Any thoughts appreciated. Can monks battle Bosses? Best single spell support?
I've played a couple of Wisdom-based monks to 30th levels and was really impressed with their overall performance until I wasn't. What we discovered was Monk's do not retain all of their AC when caught flat-footed (~-27AC offset). So, when fighting mobs you tend to get hit a lot even with an AC in the mid-60s+. Conversely, ThePaganKing created a monk build to remove the base class's inherent weaknesses... and while the AC does not come close to what you could achieve with a pure wisdom-based monk build, my personal experience is that TPK's build is infinitely stronger and more survivable. The key to the build is Epic Dodge. So, at the 27th level, my Hin Fist Monk can battle bosses far better than my intuitive strike monk could with 30th levels. Are there trade-offs? Sure, I do not have the SR and am more susceptible to magic.
Cheers!
Wouldn't dipping 3-4 levels rogue offset the AC loss due to Uncanny Dodge, allowing for wisdom clerics without the issues?
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:07 pm
by MrSmith
Hoihe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:17 pm
MrSmith wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:55 am
mixafix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am
Thanks all for the ideas so far.
Currently looking at 2/3 monks with perhaps some mix class, and a spell support. Any thoughts appreciated. Can monks battle Bosses? Best single spell support?
I've played a couple of Wisdom-based monks to 30th levels and was really impressed with their overall performance until I wasn't. What we discovered was Monk's do not retain all of their AC when caught flat-footed (~-27AC offset). So, when fighting mobs you tend to get hit a lot even with an AC in the mid-60s+. Conversely, ThePaganKing created a monk build to remove the base class's inherent weaknesses... and while the AC does not come close to what you could achieve with a pure wisdom-based monk build, my personal experience is that TPK's build is infinitely stronger and more survivable. The key to the build is Epic Dodge. So, at the 27th level, my Hin Fist Monk can battle bosses far better than my intuitive strike monk could with 30th levels. Are there trade-offs? Sure, I do not have the SR and am more susceptible to magic.
Cheers!
Wouldn't dipping 3-4 levels rogue offset the AC loss due to Uncanny Dodge, allowing for wisdom clerics without the issues?
Theoretically, yes.
Re: group idea fit for fighting bosses
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:29 pm
by mixafix
Wouldn't dipping 3-4 levels rogue offset the AC loss due to Uncanny Dodge, allowing for wisdom clerics without the issues?
what does this mean?
ThePaganKing created a monk build to remove the base class's inherent weaknesses...
what was this please?