Combat focus line - making it better?

[gotesu]

Hi there

As of now, the combat focus line of feats provides a great mechanical way of expressing a more the rp of a more "spiritual" type of fighting, but imo (and what I feel is the opinion of anyone that tried it, judging by it's various mentions in the forums) is that it is a bit underwhelming if compared to it's very taxing requirement (4 feats).

Combat awareness is useless, very very useless, Combat vigor could've been great - fast healing 4 and all it's fluff, problem is it's only for 14 rounds tops - amounting to a very unimpressive 56 hp. The +4 will save is nice (assuming the combat starts before you're hit with a mindspell, so you can trigger the combat focus first, and that it's in the duration) , perhaps the best aspect of it is the bonus to AB/dmg - but that too ends too fast, and the cooldown is quite long.

Things I could think of that would make it better and more interesting, not aiming having them all put together, just throwing ideas :

A -Trigger at will, not just wait for combat start (QoL).
B - Combat awareness - one of it's requirements is blind sight , maybe on that line making it bestow a +X/CF feat to spot and a see invis which turns to TS at 3 combat focus feats could be fitting.
C - Add another combat feat to add more diversity to it - could be many things ranging from the defensive (hastelike effect, AC bonus tied to wis in armor, epic dodge) to offensive (adding int/wis to dmg for example) or something more original.
D - Combat strike added along normally, the need to shut down combat focus mode in order to get combat strike bonuses is ....odd, currently ppl take it only for the combat strike but concept wise it should be part of the combat focus stance , could require a bit of toning down.
E - Duration and cooldown, if to go concept - wise, I think the duration should be tied to the concentration skill, somewhat similar to what dervish dance is to perform. Maybe have it round/per hard rank because fighters dont have alot of skill points to spare. Cooldown could be tied to the feats (starts at 5 minutes, goes down by half a minute every feat) - or just turn it into one use per x HD.

Maybe limit it to martial classes in some way.

Thoughts?

[yyj]

Maybe could add an epic feat that increases the duration and numbers (Just like divine might and edm do)

[EasternCheesE]

Speaking of cooldowns, i myself like the approach that is partially done with monk stunning fists.
Having 3 charges of combat focus while 1 charge recovers in 5 minutes will allow for flexibility but still requires wise usage to make sure one doesn't run out of charges when most needed. But, if one really needs to use all three in one combat, they can.

[gotesu]

Speaking of cooldowns, i myself like the approach that is partially done with monk stunning fists.
Having 3 charges of combat focus while 1 charge recovers in 5 minutes will allow for flexibility but still requires wise usage to make sure one doesn't run out of charges when most needed. But, if one really needs to use all three in one combat, they can.

That sounds great

[DaloLorn]

Some possible options might include:

- An energy resistance feat. Not too useful if you've got wards, since Energy Immunity is a thing... but it's not awful either.
- A damage resistance feat. Normally, you'd have to rely on stoneskin, or UMD a Shadow Shield scroll. Neither option is great.
- Could give an Expeditious Retreat effect if you want it to be defensive, or go all-in and make it a full Haste for more offense.

I also like your suggestions, though I'm not sure I fully agree with combat awareness being useless. It does offer up to 20% concealment, comparable to two of the Self-Concealment epic feats. The difference is that it can only get up to ~33% uptime, costs five non-epic feats, and has a much smaller ability score/level/skill requirement that allows it to be picked up quite easily by pure and semi-pure fighters. Kana, for instance, is taking that whole feat series, Greater Armor Optimization, Northlander Hewing, ICE, Weapon Supremacy, Slashing Mastery, and Epic Weapon Focus/Specialization.

Speaking of cooldowns, i myself like the approach that is partially done with monk stunning fists.
Having 3 charges of combat focus while 1 charge recovers in 5 minutes will allow for flexibility but still requires wise usage to make sure one doesn't run out of charges when most needed. But, if one really needs to use all three in one combat, they can.

You're thinking about some of the ki feats. However, Stunning Fist uses don't regenerate over time, so it's not quite how you're suggesting it.

[EasternCheesE]

Some possible options might include:

- An energy resistance feat. Not too useful if you've got wards, since Energy Immunity is a thing... but it's not awful either.
- A damage resistance feat. Normally, you'd have to rely on stoneskin, or UMD a Shadow Shield scroll. Neither option is great.
- Could give an Expeditious Retreat effect if you want it to be defensive, or go all-in and make it a full Haste for more offense.

I also like your suggestions, though I'm not sure I fully agree with combat awareness being useless. It does offer up to 20% concealment, comparable to two of the Self-Concealment epic feats. The difference is that it can only get up to ~33% uptime, costs five non-epic feats, and has a much smaller ability score/level/skill requirement that allows it to be picked up quite easily by pure and semi-pure fighters. Kana, for instance, is taking that whole feat series, Greater Armor Optimization, Northlander Hewing, ICE, Weapon Supremacy, Slashing Mastery, and Epic Weapon Focus/Specialization.

Speaking of cooldowns, i myself like the approach that is partially done with monk stunning fists.
Having 3 charges of combat focus while 1 charge recovers in 5 minutes will allow for flexibility but still requires wise usage to make sure one doesn't run out of charges when most needed. But, if one really needs to use all three in one combat, they can.

You're thinking about some of the ki feats. However, Stunning Fist uses don't regenerate over time, so it's not quite how you're suggesting it.

Yup, that's why i said "partially done". I myself confused monk ki powers that regenerate over time if not used with stunning fists themself. Let's consider i meant ki-step which consumes N charges and regenerates them back after 2 minutes of not being used.

But for such feats, it could be done with straight 1 + amount of feats charges, 5 min CD, if one uses charge while other is on cooldown, cooldown resets back to 5 min without any charge loss. So, not letting CD to end just means one reset it, but their maximum will always come back with time. So, it starts from 1 charge and goes up to 6 charges which automatically lessens duration issue and allows for more creative usage of those. Not mentioning that combat strike stops being something person does rarely.

[DaloLorn]

Yeah, that's just it. Ki Step irreversibly consumes Stunning Fist charges, but only if it's on cooldown. If it's not on cooldown, it instantly refunds the spent charges.

I seem to remember there being some ability somewhere that had multiple charges that recovered over time, but it's not any of the ki feats.

[EasternCheesE]

Yeah, that's just it. Ki Step irreversibly consumes Stunning Fist charges, but only if it's on cooldown. If it's not on cooldown, it instantly refunds the spent charges.

I seem to remember there being some ability somewhere that had multiple charges that recovered over time, but it's not any of the ki feats.

Anyway, thanks for correcting me. Ki stuff is not super similar example, but it shows the idea in general. In fact, i myself think that doing this to all class/racial abilities with different amount of charges and different CD would be nice and will allow some things that are hardly ever used to become a minor (or major) backup even past certain level.

[yyj]

I seem to remember there being some ability somewhere that had multiple charges that recovered over time, but it's not any of the ki feats.

Some of the new Shadowdancer abilities do.

[YYA]

I once had a wisdom based Zen Archery Ranger (30) on this server, with all four Combat Focus feats, (Awareness, Strike, and Vigor.) The +4 AB and Damage that I could have every 3,5 minutes was how I made use of it, and especially when going against high amounts of DR or enemies that were not among my Favored Enemy Lists. Also, as a Zen Archery Ranger, it was fairly easy to initiate combat from a distance to get the most out of the feats.

If my memory serves, I went for Combat Focus simply because I did not really have any other feats to take as a wisdom based Ranger: Zen Archery, Blind Fight, Improved Animal Companion, and I just beelined towards: Combat Focus, Awarenness, Strike, and Vigor.

You know, I agree how I only really got a use out of Combat Strike out of the four feat lot, but it only puts it at the same Category as the Fey Skin feat from Fey Legacy line of feats, where the other feats simply exist to improve the Fey Skin DR bonus.

Rangers have Concentration as a class skill, and get "6 + intelligence modifier" per level as skill points. I think I had concentration maxed on mine just because I ran out of other usable class skills. And wisdom based Rangers are nothing to shrug at as you can easily buff up your animal companion and yourself. ( must add that I really had no need for the Point Blank Shot feat.) I do not recall whether the Combat Strike Damage got multiplied with Manyshot or not, but the extra AB at least helped to cut the -8 AB penalty from Manyhshot in half. Thus I am not sure if boosting these feats based on concentration ranks would be such a good idea.

Also, take note that PRC such as Blackguard has also access to Concentration skill, and if you go for an Epic Divine MIght Rogue 10/Blackguard 10/Dragon Slayer 10 -- you might have 13+ wisdom, and even some feats to spare to grab Combat Strike. Cleave, Power Attack, Iron Will, Dodge, Divine Might, and as a Human or a Strongheart Halfling you got three feats left unspent, and +3 AB and Damage is nothing to shrug at.

[gotesu]

While there is the possibility of turning it to be some cherry on top of an already cheesy combination, I still think this line of feats could use an overhaul - it is extremely expensive in terms of feats - enough to be regarded as the investment of taking a class. As it is now it is rather unrewarding for it’s investment and certainly compared to what it could be. More then just hitting the “make it more powerful button” I wanted to suggest to hit the “make it more interesting/useful” button.

Pinpointed limitation could always be inserted (like nonstacking with divine might or things like monk ac should an ac boost be inserted) and while for some buildd concentration investment is not an issue, I think it could still be considered as it is very fitting concept wise and maybe make it easier forbthe dev team to consider buffing it, since that would raise the cost to 4 feats and a skill investment.

All in all, I really like to think of it as a psuedo-fighter kit which emphasizes wisdom in fighting, and just like the concept in general and thats why I suggest it to be reworked.

[mrm3ntalist]

The way to make things better with this line of feats, is to delete them and save space. Mechanically useless line of feats.

Of course one can take them for RP reasons, in which case they are invaluable

[gotesu]

The way to make things better with this line of feats, is to delete them and save space. Mechanically useless line of feats.

Exactly what Im trying to change

[joleda]

What's their maximum uptime? 20%

[YYA]

As for a buff suggestion for Combat Focus, how about you just have all the bonuses from all the feats active at once?

With all four feats:
+ 4 to Will Saves (Combat Focus)
+ 4 to Damage (Combat Strike)
+ 4 to AB (Combat Strike)
+ 4 Regeneration (Combat Vigor)
+ 20% Concealment (Combat Awareness)
+ See Enemy Hitpoints (Combat Awreness)

For maximum duration of 14 rounds, with 35 round cooldown.