PSA on Bullying

[DM SummerBreeze]

Honestly, this stuff shouldn’t even need to be said but. . .

It has begun to come to my attention that there has begun to form a culture of bullying others on the server. Whether this is outright trolling other players, trolling DM events, or generally being intentionally unpleasant to others (both Player’s and DM’s alike.) in order to garner a reaction, to cause them to overstep in a way that can be used as a report, or to cause them to become so frustrated that they leave the server entirely.

To be quite honest, I am upset and disheartened by this. I thought better of this place and thought better of its players than this. This behavior truly, is unacceptable amongst the playerbase comprised almost exclusively of adults, many of whom are well past their school-age.

Whether it is “secret” discords garnered to rally people against certain groups or players(Or certain staff members.) or creating new characters with the sole purpose to cause problems for certain groups of players, I have been seeing it all. Repeatedly, within the last several months and to me, appears to be on the rise.

I keep getting personal messages directly to me, from both new and long time players alike as well as DM’s, about what they can do better because they don’t understand why certain people are being so cruel to them, or why they can’t participate in events on the server without being bullied. When a DM comes to me with screen shots of players being outright nasty toward them, if not entirely joining the event with the sole purpose to disrupt it.

These things are a sure-fire way to burn this community to the ground. Full stop. This behavior will help absolutely nobody ever.

These behaviors will not create positive change, they are only hurting the people who are making this place what it is supposed to be: a fun enjoyable romp in a fantasy world, an escape from work and chores, a dungeon run with friends, or a collaborative story told as a community.

I just want to remind everyone here, that these characters and DM’s are not just faceless people on the internet. They are human beings with lives, feelings, and hardships of their own, and those that choose to act this way, are doing real harm to real people.

If you feel in the moment, like you need to send that /tell or PM to someone and it is something unpleasant, snarky, mean, or otherwise nasty; take a moment to reflect: Is it going to help the situation? Are you going to add to peoples enjoyment? Is this going to make a positive change or actually resolve the issue you may have?

If the answer to those is a no, then perhaps you should stay your hand, or save it for a meaningful report to the admins or DM’s . . . . or in some cases, maybe just let it go? Sometimes things just aren’t really a big deal. Step back, take a breath, log out, do what you need to do, but attacking and bullying your fellow players or staff is not the answer to any situation in this community.


- If you have a serious problem with a player or staff member, please come talk to me or the Admins, if you don’t want the entire DM team involved, or if you just want to talk about something, or have a cool idea. We do listen and if we want things to be better, it takes effort from all of us.

- <3 These words are solely from HDM SummerBreeze and may or may not reflect the ideas of the admins as a whole. Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and even more so if you take it to heart.

Please, just be nice to each other.

[Snarfy]

If certain players are being complete a-holes, then the easiest solution would be to ban them. Problem players tend to be a recurring theme on BG, and I realize the intention is to be as inclusive and accommodating as possible, but sometimes you just need to show people the door and try not to feel bad about it. Give them at least a 6 month time out, sans-guilt, then re-assess.

On the flip side of the coin... if you're a player who is PO'd and feeling the urge to lash out or be an a-hole, do everyone a favor and go play something else until it's out of your system.

[selhan]

Or we can deal with them in other ways *grins* ..Okay okay I be nice.
Once upon a time the Server community use to have some morals about things, and had the common goal to make the server fun, teach things to new players, and help each other improve their gameplay/rp etc .

Really sad if something like bullies are about. But again, there's two ways to go about this, the nice way or...

[The_Sorting_Hat]

See, here's the thing. Those are the people who stay, as you said, while the reasonable people who simply don't have thick enough skin to shrug it all off simply leave. As would any reasonable person in this situation.
And what this leads to is... well, the current state of affairs where such announcements need to be posted. At this point, you might as well ban half of the remaining server population, if being an asshat to others becomes a ban-able offense. And then you'll have no player base left.

...or at least I feel like the damage has already been done a while ago. And no, I have no clue what is to be done about it. But then again, I am told I am a bit of a doomer. It might not be as bad. I hope.


I -can- though, attest to this actually being a thing. It's not nice when it happens.

[YYA]

It has begun to come to my attention that there has begun to form a culture of bullying others on the server. Whether this is outright trolling other players, trolling DM events, or generally being intentionally unpleasant to others (both Player’s and DM’s alike.) in order to garner a reaction, to cause them to overstep in a way that can be used as a report, or to cause them to become so frustrated that they leave the server entirely.

I do not know what is the current Dungeon Master policy on this server, but the above is the exact type of server culture that always follows the practice of anonymous complaints to Dungeon Masters, or their equivalents in slightly different context. Thus one way to change that culture is to let the so called 'accused' know exactly what he is accused of and by whom. In other words: the report of a player making that 'overstep' could be easily countered by merely showing previous acts of goading, and even if that is not possible, then at least our 'accused' would know exactly who to avoid entirely in the future. It will eventually considerably reduce the culture of malicious reporting, because you can no longer get away with it with endless 'anonymous' reports. And lets be honest, with anonymous reports, whether one wants to do it or not, one has to report every single thing that teeters on the line of being a slight. You never know what the future brings, who might get upset over what, and therefore you have to file in those reports just in case some disagreement later results in an overstep of some kind on your own part. Perhaps it is just me, but I would think Dungeon Masters of a D&D server would have better things to do than to record endless grievances.

But in the meanwhile, perhaps the best thing one can do is just type a different username when joining multiplayer games, starting a new character from scratch, and not making a single peep about it to anyone on Discord, IRC, or even on the forums. And if you are not looking forward to starting entirely anew from scratch, the RCR NPC in nexus is tied to your CD Keys and not your login user name. And anyhow, starting anew is one way to enjoy the server.

[Rhifox]

Please, just be nice to each other.

This 100%.

<3

[yyj]

A lot of this comes from a vindictive feelings against players like rumors of he said/she said that we don't care to confirm because it supports certain narratives. A desire for punishing others as a community for doing the wrongthink or just simply "being a bad roleplayer" whatever that means, doesn't help anyone and in fact it feeds the toxicity.
There's a process to deal with this and a lynch mob is not one.


Just delivering bans is just a superficial fix, I've seen many people banned and yet it didn't help that much to change how things roll, it'a the most obvious thing to do in some cases, but many times fails to deal with the root of the problem. (Though it still helps and is necessary, but in my opinion just part of the solution, not the solution)

The truth is that there's no easy fix for this until we people start realizing how we are part of the problem, rather than start throwing punches to each other.

Thanks for this post HDMSB.

[Ghost]

I want to add to SummerBreeze' post here, because it is a problem that has been present for a long time (I wrote about it in my first resignation post in 2016):

And about evidence, this is a constant problem. I hear people complain about DMs and players alike. You have to send in screenshots or other evidence to make your case. Otherwise it just becomes obnoxious complaining and simply spreading venom. If you have complaints about players, send them to the DM team. The DM team cannot know otherwise. They cannot help solve the situation. The same goes for when you have complaints about a particular DM: Send the complaint to the HDMs. And if you want to complain about a HDM, perhaps reach out to the other HDMs or [Admin]. I'm afraid, however, that if you find the de facto owners of the server - the people who actually run it - to be the problem, you're out of luck.

If you do not report anything, the DM team cannot act on it.
And of course if it is about a DM, report it to the HDMs and Admins.

I cannot ever stress this enough. Over the years, I've often been told privately or heard from others who have been told, that certain things are happening (harrassment, PvP rule violations, DM favoritism, whatever it may be), and that nothing is being done about it. "Why aren't the DMs/HDMs/Admins doing something about this?" is the question. The answer is very often that we (or they, for the higher-ups) don't have evidence to go on or just don't even actually know that something is happening.

Report, report, report! I can repeat it ad nauseum, because it is so important.

[Xorena]

Report, report, report! I can repeat it ad nauseum, because it is so important.

For some reason if people are having a rough time sometimes they come to me to talk about it. Literally the first question I ask after they tell me what happened is "Did you report this behavior and to whom?" A thread I wrote a while back about includes instructions on how to document and report report behavior. Here are relevant parts:

Hidden: show

How to document and report bad behavior:

People can and do receive warnings, suspensions and bans for their behavior, but you must collect the right evidence and send a PM to the DM team.

1) You are not obligated to RP any uncomfortable scenarios. You can and should remove yourself from uncomfortable situations.

2) Keep your head. This isn’t your fault. You must tell the other person to stop or otherwise be clear that their behavior toward you is unacceptable. "No" is a complete sentence. They do not get to decide how you feel. You must OOC say that you do not want this behavior. If you do not say “no” OOC, they may justify continued behavior toward you as in-character.

3) You can withdraw your consent at any time, for any reason. If you at first believed you would be comfortable with something, and later on are not (or RP deviated from expectations) -- what matters is how you feel NOW, and not how you felt at first. Do not be afraid to communicate it. There’s no such thing as too late.

4) Unfortunately when some people do not get their way the behavior escalates and they become abusive. Be prepared. In other cases it may take several days or weeks before the behavior continues. If their behavior persists, resize the chat log and take screenshots of the in-game conversation, including you telling them to stop. Logging out when disturbed is tempting, but the DMs will do nothing without evidence.

5) Send a PM to the DM team and clearly describe what happened. Include all screenshots. You may need to host screenshots on an outside server.

You must take screenshots of conversations, because if you decide to report later and you have no evidence your case is weaker. If you are in Discord, Skype, GroupMe or whatever the heck the kids use these days, take screenshots of conversations. If they are in voice, record it, or take really good notes afterwards (including what time the remarks were said and who was in the chat).

If your case involves reports of multiple instances of behavior, then help the admins/DMs out and create a timeline. Explain how the events relate to one another (if they do). On another server a player kept bugging me to RP with them (which devolved into namecalling and filling my screen with OOC chat whenever I was online, along with reporting me for not RPing with her?). Their character and my character were miles apart IC and there was no way my character would voluntarily spend time with hers. But with patience I collected screenshots and created a detailed timeline (even though I considered leaving the server entirely) of all the times this player tried to contact me OOC and tried to circumvent my Discord block, and the admins eventually talked to that person who ended up leaving the server.

The few instances I have had to report behavior, DMs and Admins have been kind and thoughtful. You absolutely have to report it or they will do nothing, they can do nothing.

You might think of an action that bothers you as, "Oh it's not that big a deal" or "It's not worth reporting," but if the player keeps doing things that are "not a big deal" all the time, then suddenly it is a big deal. That's why you need to take screenshots. Save that information.

One of the great things about the internet is if you keep the details to yourself, nobody can retaliate against you in person for reporting them. There are people you can talk to who can help you with your reports. Admins are patient and do respond.

[Snarfy]

See, here's the thing. Those are the people who stay, as you said, while the reasonable people who simply don't have thick enough skin to shrug it all off simply leave. As would any reasonable person in this situation.
And what this leads to is... well, the current state of affairs where such announcements need to be posted. At this point, you might as well ban half of the remaining server population, if being an asshat to others becomes a ban-able offense. And then you'll have no player base left.

The player counter will suffer, sure, but only temporarily. Reasonable players who take a break due to ass-hattery will usually come back once the dumpster fires have stopped burning. A big part of the problem is, IMHO, and this is not to criticize anyone, that BG has a bit of a tendency to suffer from giving problem players the kid-glove treatment. A fairly recent example of this was a player in particular(that I will not name, not that I need to, people will know who I'm talking about) who was being abusive and causing issues on the daily, for months on end, before they got banned(again). But by the time they were shown the door, a number of quality players had already thrown up their hands and buggered off, several of which returned once said player was punted.

Just delivering bans is just a superficial fix, I've seen many people banned and yet it didn't help that much to change how things roll, it'a the most obvious thing to do in some cases, but many times fails to deal with the root of the problem. (Though it still helps and is necessary, but in my opinion just part of the solution, not the solution)

The truth is that there's no easy fix for this until we people start realizing how we are part of the problem, rather than start throwing punches to each other.

+1. And I fully realize that bans aren't going to magically fix things, but when it comes to the types of behavior that Summer has listed, spending copious amounts of time and energy trying to reason with these players, or waiting for them to come to their senses just isn't worth it. If someone is being abusive or cruel to players/DM's, harassing players out of malicious intent, or purposefully trying to sabotage events and RP for the same reasons, then, again IMHO, these types of players deserve little to zero leniency.

And yes, it's important to be diligent in gathering proof in the form of screenshots and the like, but I think it's just as important to be cognizant enough to recognize destructive patterns of behavior in players and factor that in as well.

[Maecius]

What follows is my opinion, and may not represent the official stance of the admins as a whole:

To be honest, it's not a new problem. I think my first effort to try and remind folks to be nice to each other was this now archived thread from 2011: viewtopic.php?f=692&t=13787

So that's ten years ago.

It's probably not a problem that will ever go away entirely, truth be told, because it's human nature for people to group up and to be competitive, to gossip, and to sometimes, quite frankly, be mean to each other.

But it is something we can remain vigilant of, and act collectively against, as a community. Relying on the DMs or even the admins to fix a culture problem is asking too much of people who probably do not have enough power to action the desired change.

While reports absolutely should be made when people are breaking the rules or behaving in outright cruel and harmful ways, banning people for veiled insults, passive aggressive comments, offhand snarkiness of a callous or insensitive nature, or baiting won't resolve the overall problem if we allow these things to be acceptable for ourselves individually, or for ourselves as a community.

We all have it in our power to help change the culture of the server in a meaningful way if we want to.

How?

- Be nice to players, and be welcoming to new players in particular -- don't just assume they're an alt, they might really have no idea how to play on the server yet, and I'm sure we've gained and lost a number of new players over the years because nobody took them in and made them feel at home here (and even if they are an alt, they're probably looking for new friends anyway, so it's win-win either way);
- Treat your in-character enemies with out of character respect -- and do the same for people you just don't really like out of character either (there's always going to be people who just rub you the wrong way, but it's up to you -- and, to be honest, it only reflects on you -- whether you're a jerk to them or not): You're sharing server space and weaving a story together, so at least try to get along even if you don't think you'll ever truly be friends;
- Shut down gossip and secretive "you know, that player/DM ..." conversations. Don't give people the opportunity to spread malicious rumors or even truths designed/leaked/shared to hurt others; instead, judge people individually, for yourself, based on your own interactions with them, not on what other people say about them behind their backs where they can't even defend themselves;
- Ultimately, try to treat others how you'd treat someone you value. Because if we fail to do that, if we fail to value each other, we will have fewer and fewer people to write stories with as the years go by.

None of us are perfect. I've broken my own rules myself, and I can sometimes be a bit of a troll if I'm not careful. I grew up on the Internet, and I know how to get under peoples's skin. It can even be fun in certain contexts. But indulging in that here is a surefire way to degrade the community over time. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face -- burning down your house to get rid of a mouse.

I've said before that every staff member here is technically a player. But in my opinion, every player here is also technically a staff member: A representative of the server and the community we want to have here.

If we all strive to live up to our roles as representatives of our shared server and remember that our actions are literally informing the world we're making here together, then perhaps we'll make for ourselves a community more in line with the server we want for ourselves.

If we rely on "others" to be decent to us and never return the favor, or complain about things yet never try to be part of the solution, we'll continue having these conversations once every year or so for however long we're here.

Finally, speaking as an admin again, reports are critical to resolving these issues when they are elevated to DM, HDM, or admin level. While it's obviously best to resolve problems at a personal level whenever you can, when that proves impossible, providing us with reports (with screenshots or logs or details when possible) allows us to act to intervene in a hopefully constructive manner for everyone involved.

[YYA]

Report, report, report! I can repeat it ad nauseum, because it is so important.

Ah, reading the comments here really brings laughter until my very cheeks hurt.

Has anyone watched a show called Cobra Kai? There was this school, bunch of kids learned karate in rival schools and decide to have fight in the school corridors. Kid falls down, breaks his spine or something, and once the school continues one of the kids that was bullied at school has now turned into a bully himself and he takes full advantage of the school's anti-bullying stance to bully other kids. As far as modern Hollywood productions are considered, it is profoundly brilliant stuff.

And once again, there is one simple way to end targeted harassment online. Turn off the device. And if you cannot; just create a new login, a new character, and unless you go about telling people who you are, all they see is but your character to interact with. There are countless builds, countless base classes, so just try something new and you will have fun. If you must interact on the forums to get some in character stuff done with your new characters, then you just create a new forum account, and you can do the same for the IRC or Discord stuff -- and most people will not have a single clue. And you know, I once asked an admin to change my forum username, as I had also prepared a new avatar and signature to go with it, and all of a sudden the stream of complaints about being too 'argumentative' ended all of sudden, just like an apple thrown at a brick wall. Trust me, just create a new alias, it will work far better than any report filed to the dungeon masters.

Because lets face it...

Getting banned is nothing special,
People get banned every week,
People get banned every week.

Ah, football chants. The chorus of crowd rings in my head.

[Almarea90]

I don't think running away and pretending to be someone else will help much for a number of reasons:

- The violation will never be acknowledged and the abuser is going to never be confronted on that.
- If someone else actually reports the same abuser, even though said abuser has committed the violation multiple times there will not be a record of past reports to appeal to and that would negate the additional weight of repeated offence.
- It renders the picture of the overall situation on the server less clear and can potentially make a frequent occurrence seem like an isolated case.
- The above situation might cause the staff to fail in recognizing a new rule might be needed to address the situation.
- Someone might not want to abandon a character they might have invested years on.
- This practice might also encourage an abuser to do the same.

I will always advocate the use of the official channels to denounce violations or abuses.

[Xorena]

While there are people who read this and act with good intent, others will attempt to exploit the rules or our good nature, our expectation that people are behaving in good faith. They are not. The people who are not behaving in good faith, who are mocking others by panning their player names or trying to skirt the rules really ought to be given a vacation.

They know exactly what they are doing. It is disingenuous and insulting and you're wasting your time while they rules lawyer themselves out of any accountability (but maybe I am too heavy handed like DM Ghost).

And once again, there is one simple way to end targeted harassment online. Turn off the device. And if you cannot; just create a new login, a new character, and unless you go about telling people who you are, all they see is but your character to interact with.

Your advice to people being harassed is for them to leave? Or is that your advice to people harassing others, and then tell them to evade bans and criticism by making new accounts? I'm confused.

[YYA]

I don't think running away and pretending to be someone else will help much for a number of reasons:

Everything is debatable.

- The violation will never be acknowledged and the abuser is going to never be confronted on that.

Or perhaps our hypothetical abuser is just going to notice that there is not a lot of people to interact with. People are free to blame others, but when there is no one else to blame left, it will finally be the time for that long look at the mirror.

- If someone else actually reports the same abuser, even though said abuser has committed the violation multiple times there will not be a record of past reports to appeal to and that would negate the additional weight of repeated offence.

In other words, you want a server where every single interaction must be reported. You have to keep pressing that 'print screen' button, to make a record of every perceivable minor slight, where on principle alone one will never turn the other cheek, where people cannot be expected to act like mature adults.

- It renders the picture of the overall situation on the server less clear and can potentially make a frequent occurrence seem like an isolated case.

Or it paints a mountain out of a tiny and utterly insignificant molehill.

- The above situation might cause the staff to fail in recognizing a new rule might be needed to address the situation.

Which results in situation where the staff fails to recognize the rules they themselves have already written, and simply feel compelled to act simply because of repeated complaints about insignificant grievances.

- Someone might not want to abandon a character they might have invested years on.

And sometimes that is the best thing that someone could do. There is only one character on this server that has left a lasting impression for me to remember its name, and that was Atlas' Arkaine Half-Orken -- and I cannot describe how some people simply loathed that character because it had been a thorn at their sides for years and years. And just to be clear, with this statement I focus on nothing but in character interactions, because it was simply impossible to appease both sides of player conflict in a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

- This practice might also encourage an abuser to do the same.

And let us assume that there has been a mountain of complaints, and that absolutely none of them are malicious or frivolous. Now what? The staff sends a Personal Message on the forums informing how there have been multiple complaints about our abuser. How would you react if you were told just that? People have complained, but no one mentions the actual specifics, and our abuser is told to change his or her ways or else. The actual contents of these complaints are held secret because the staff has taken a serious 'anti-bullying' responsibility in order to protect the makers of every single malicious and frivolous complaint... Will abuser change his way? Nah, not even if he wants to, and that is simply because he doesn't even know what behavior to change or who to avoid. Thus in all due likelihood, you have merely encouraged him or her to become even worse than he or she was before. Well done. You have fixed online bullying.

I will always advocate the use of the official channels to denounce violations or abuses.

And I recognize the fact that the official channels are not infallible, or even impartial at times.

While there are people who read this and act with good intent, others will attempt to exploit the rules or our good nature, our expectation that people are behaving in good faith. They are not.

So, mind if I ask which university offered your course on mind reading, for I too would like to divulge the secrets kept in the minds of others. In other words; can someone you dislike posses a good intent, can someone you dislike behave in good faith?

The people who are not behaving in good faith, who are mocking others by panning their player names or trying to skirt the rules really ought to be given a vacation.

And here is the thing, who decides what is mockery? Are one's hurt feelings enough to turn a honest word of criticism into nothing more than an open attack? Sadly, others are not in control of your feelings, and therefore, you yourself must control your own feelings. It is a part of being an adult.

Your advice to people being harassed is for them to leave? Or is that your advice to people harassing others, and then tell them to evade bans and criticism by making new accounts? I'm confused.

And I would ask, in your eyes, why is it not applicable to both?