Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Strength-based characters have shortspears and longsword with vamp 2 available.

Finesse-based weapons are more difficult, as they can be dual-wielded by certain (but not all) builds for double their hp/round.

As such, while powerful vamp 2 shortspears and longswords exist - a weak/defensive sickle should exist for finesse characters.

There is that mechanic of giving an item positive and negative EB to prevent buffing it with GMW, thus this should be used on a sickle.



This, item suggestion:

Sickle of Autumn Harvest
damage: 1d6
Crit range: 20
Crit multiplier: 2x

Enchantment Bonus 5
Enchantment Bonus -3
Vampiric Regen 2
Weight 200%

Cost: 150 000 gold pieces (can be lower, but chose this as "A brand new account, that loots 2-3 areas once a week, will be able to afford this as a sidearm by level 30."

Why a sickle?

A) Because I believe it is the weakest offensive weapon possible. Light hammers deal less damage, but are blunt so can pierce DR better. Short swords are piercing, so theoretically even worse at dealing with DR but synergize with duelist, so it'd be potentially good at offense. Further, sickles being "small" are heavier than daggers, making weight 200% potentially discourage dual wielding further on a PTWF build.

B) Thematic. It's harvesting life force!


Why this:

Helps reduce UMD dependency.

I would love if we had a vampiric dagger +4/+2

yyj wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:05 pm I would love if we had a vampiric dagger +4/+2

I'd like that too, but I'm kind of trying to imagine the least powerful, but still useful item possible to remove the need for Mirror Images without relying on RNG or "trade only" acquisition. Basically, something super basic anyone can get kinda like Nine Lives Stealer or that short spear in iirc Roaringshore.



An alternate idea is EB 5 EB -5 AB 3. Basically can't GMW, but get some AB. Dunno if that is possible tho, I know EB 5 EB -3 works.

There are countless weapon types without a single one being sold by the epic merchants. I looked for a battle axe and only saw great axes, or dwarven battle axes.

Thus instead of making a needlesly gimped weapon, the NWN vault might still retain instructions on how to make weapons in the toolset, and even how to make a merchant. Thus, if you export it and send it to the staff, maybe the whole shop will appear in game. There is space in the market areas of the server.

If you do not wiah to see the effort, check the in game second hand shop, consignment store, once a day. People are always selling sickles in there. Another way to go at it is to start a new character with high strength and just loot those chests and dungeons. It will be raining vampiric sickles in no time.

Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:06 pm Strength-based characters have shortspears and longsword with vamp 2 available.

Finesse-based weapons are more difficult, as they can be dual-wielded by certain (but not all) builds for double their hp/round.

As such, while powerful vamp 2 shortspears and longswords exist - a weak/defensive sickle should exist for finesse characters.

There is that mechanic of giving an item positive and negative EB to prevent buffing it with GMW, thus this should be used on a sickle.



This, item suggestion:

Sickle of Autumn Harvest
damage: 1d6
Crit range: 20
Crit multiplier: 2x

Enchantment Bonus 5
Enchantment Bonus -3
Vampiric Regen 2
Weight 200%

Cost: 150 000 gold pieces (can be lower, but chose this as "A brand new account, that loots 2-3 areas once a week, will be able to afford this as a sidearm by level 30."

Why a sickle?

A) Because I believe it is the weakest offensive weapon possible. Light hammers deal less damage, but are blunt so can pierce DR better. Short swords are piercing, so theoretically even worse at dealing with DR but synergize with duelist, so it'd be potentially good at offense. Further, sickles being "small" are heavier than daggers, making weight 200% potentially discourage dual wielding further on a PTWF build.

B) Thematic. It's harvesting life force!


Why this:

Helps reduce UMD dependency.

I know this isn’t quite what you’re asking for but the is a +3 sickle with 1d4 negative energy damage and +1 vamp (and like -2 disease save iirc) sold by the githyanki vendor in the illithid hive.

Might also be evil only so you’d probably need some umd.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:51 pm

Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:06 pm Strength-based characters have shortspears and longsword with vamp 2 available.
Why this:

Helps reduce UMD dependency.

I know this isn’t quite what you’re asking for but the is a +3 sickle with 1d4 negative energy damage and +1 vamp (and like -2 disease save iirc) sold by the githyanki vendor in the illithid hive.

Might also be evil only so you’d probably need some umd.

I, uh... think you're missing literally the whole point of Hoihe's request all at once with that post.

Honestly, after that tantrum I read through just now, I would be tempted to argue against this suggestion just out of spite. Having a meltdown like that is not conducive to anything at all good, and it's high time Hoihe learned some bloody restraint.

... However, I can't deny that somewhere in that mess of barely-restrained ranting, there were a few solid arguments. Not everyone can group up to offset weaknesses in their builds (though I've been remarkably fortunate of late, myself ), and survivability in endgame zones does seem to require copious quantities of self-healing in addition to nigh-impenetrable AC/DR... unless you've got a source of Mirror Images and/or Displacement, neither of which last very long in a fight. And as tanky as that sickle ought to make people, the idea of deliberately crippling its maximum EB does sound like a decent way of counterbalancing it.

What the hell, I'm up for it.

Honestly, i'm all for more epic items that would allow people to have the weapon of their choice with same stats as other epic items.
Many MMOs (yeah, you can say it's not MMO, but it still has a lot of grind and adventuring is 80% of mechanical gameplay) offer different weapon types with exactly same enchantments so people just choose what they like or what their class can have. This idea wasn't met quite warm, but, being honest, if standard martial weapon in Epic shop offers (longsword) EB 4, massive crits 1d4 and vamp regen 4, why there is no other standard simple and exotic weapon offering same or similar?

I'm not asking to make every axe, halberd, spear, katana etc with same thing, but typical standard things, just like longsword is: dagger, bastard sword, dwarven waraxe and kama. Thus, we cover simple, rogue, martial, exotic, dwarf and monk weapon proficiencies with at least 1 decent sample of this enchantment and if someone wants a rapier or sickle or hatchet, here's RIG for them. Since daggers can be used by anyone, they can go +3 instead of +4. And all of them, sure, should cost quite the same as nine lives stealer which is an example.

I still don't agree with the argument about "vamp regen weapons are the must for epics", since many people with various melee builds somehow play epic dungeons without vamp regen weapons and feel quite fine, but having more weapon diversity that is not for specific builds/proficiency would be good.

How about energies are focused on getting a custom enhancement system IG?!?

This is a cheap enough interrim solution, I think, that it shouldn't detract from any effort to implement a crafting system. If anyone is even working on such.

I hear it is coming out... "soon."

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:29 am

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:51 pm

Hoihe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:06 pm Strength-based characters have shortspears and longsword with vamp 2 available.
Why this:

Helps reduce UMD dependency.

I know this isn’t quite what you’re asking for but the is a +3 sickle with 1d4 negative energy damage and +1 vamp (and like -2 disease save iirc) sold by the githyanki vendor in the illithid hive.

Might also be evil only so you’d probably need some umd.

I, uh... think you're missing literally the whole point of Hoihe's request all at once with that post.

I get what you're saying, I'm just not entirely certain I agree.

If you look at a fight like an equation its a balance between damage taken vs damage output. So +1 vamp reduces damage taken by less than +2 vamp. However 1d4 negative energy increases damage output quite a bit. Fights end faster, ergo less damage taken.

Further the stats on her proposed sickle limit it to +2 EB. This is slightly less damage output and 5% less damage reduced (or healed) over time vs a +3 sickle with +1 vamp.

If you're just looking at +1 vamp vs +2 vamp, yes they are not the same. If you're looking at bigger picture performance during a fight and how it effects survivability the equation gets more complicated.

The point of their post is, "can we have a sickle for sale with vamp regen?" Yes we have a sickle for sale with vamp regen. It's not the one they designed- in some ways a bit weaker, in some a bit stronger- but it's a solid simple weapon that effectively increases survivability for finesse characters. Which I think is the overall desire.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:40 pmIf you look at a fight like an equation its a balance between damage taken vs damage output. So +1 vamp reduces damage taken by less than +2 vamp. However 1d4 negative energy increases damage output quite a bit. Fights end faster, ergo less damage taken.

If only it was that simple....

There are many more parameters you need to take into consideration. But generally an additional vamp regen is better than any kind of d4 damage.

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:46 pm

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:40 pmIf you look at a fight like an equation its a balance between damage taken vs damage output. So +1 vamp reduces damage taken by less than +2 vamp. However 1d4 negative energy increases damage output quite a bit. Fights end faster, ergo less damage taken.

If only it was that simple....

There are many more parameters you need to take into consideration. But generally an additional vamp regen is better than any kind of d4 damage.

I don't disagree. But it's one more vamp regen with 1 less EB and less damage. More tanky even so? Yes. Does the current alternative fall woefully short? No I used to use one. It's pretty good. The vamp regen makes a difference. On top of it being decent DPS.

Also one thing I forgot to mention, vamp regen only works if you do damage which can be an issue with finesse builds and high untyped DR... but the negative energy component is so rarely resisted I can't remember anything that actually did resist it. So you can always count on getting some vamp regen even against extremely high untyped DR epic monsters.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:01 pm

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:46 pm

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:40 pmIf you look at a fight like an equation its a balance between damage taken vs damage output. So +1 vamp reduces damage taken by less than +2 vamp. However 1d4 negative energy increases damage output quite a bit. Fights end faster, ergo less damage taken.

If only it was that simple....

There are many more parameters you need to take into consideration. But generally an additional vamp regen is better than any kind of d4 damage.

I don't disagree. But it's one more vamp regen with 1 less EB and less damage. More tanky even so? Yes. Does the current alternative fall woefully short? No I used to use one. It's pretty good. The vamp regen makes a difference. On top of it being decent DPS.

Also one thing I forgot to mention, vamp regen only works if you do damage which can be an issue with finesse builds and high untyped DR... but the negative energy component is so rarely resisted I can't remember anything that actually did resist it. So you can always count on getting some vamp regen even against extremely high untyped DR epic monsters.

Its very easy to prove to you that vamp regen is more essential. The general idea is that Vamp regen is not ideal when you are not taking damage, ie when you are fighting fodder spawns. Against bosses, (or spawns with high AB or Sustain ) where you actually will get hit vamp regen tramps any d4 damage you can get on a weapon. I will get a +2vamp regen weapon over a d4 damage, all the time.

M3nt is right because we are talking numbers. Mobs and especially Bosses are so inflated with HP that an average of 2 dmg per hit is absolutely inferior to the +4/+8/+12 Regen that a +1/+2/+3 vamp weapon will grant the PC per round on average. And that’s just a one-handed.