Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

This is one of those things where I absolutely need the feedback of the whole community !

I was listening to and engaging in discussions with some player groups and we were speaking on the topic of loosening the restrictions on the UD. I am not saying this will for sure 100% happen, but personally I am open to the idea, with some caveats...

A rough idea of how it would work based on discussions I've had:

Opening some of the northern maps ( Soubar/Boarskyr/Blackrose area.) as "neutral" territory, where the Kill on Sight rule does not apply ( Normal PVP rules apply.) and expanding/changing the map around Boarskyr slightly. Enlarging the camp fire area outside of the Northern Fort, perhaps turning it into a more hangout area similar to the fire near BG except for folks with looser morals. This would include removing the spawns in this area and perhaps even turning the fort itself into an inn? Just some ideas there that were thrown around.

As it stands, the Underdark is all but dead, we can count the number of truly active UD players on one hand right now. This of course does not mean they get free roam. The existing UD rules outside of these maps will still apply, Kill-On Sight PVP, banned from the lands controlled by places like Baldurs Gate and other cities that typically do not like underdark races. Grinding on the surface would still be generally frowned upon outside of northern areas, ect. But what this would do is allow the underdark the opportunities to open up their RP to a lot of the surface evil factions in a lot of different ways, and allow the underdark to be treated a bit more like one giant faction/guild that happens to have a lot of areas under their wings.

I am of course open to other ideas for this as well. Hence the open discussion !

Would love to get as much feedback and discussion on this as possible, but please stay constructive as mods will be watching this thread like hawks I am sure

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts !

This poll will stay open for about a month.

I dont think having Boarskyr bridge, which is a crossroads to epic content, be the "hang out" for drow and other shady characters makes a lot of design sense.

If we open the module to underdark races because no one plays there, what purpose is the underdark serving?

Planehopper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:40 pm I dont think having Boarskyr bridge, which is a crossroads to epic content, be the "hang out" for drow and other shady characters makes a lot of design sense.

If we open the module to underdark races because no one plays there, what purpose is the underdark serving?

the boarskyr was just an idea thrown up in discussion. Really it could even be a new area entirely, people just expressed they'd like a hangout spot like the BG camp fire, but not in BG, on/near the main roads so its easily accessed. I suggested perhaps the spot with the northern watch tower that isnt utilized much. But it being a gateway to epic content for everyone is valid point.

I think you misread me for the UD areas though. The current rules for UD races will still apply for grinding areas and everywhere outside of the northern "neutral zone". This idea is simply to give them another avenue to interact with other players for RP purposes, because from what I have gathered, the lack of interaction and the feeling of being completely walled off from most of the playerbase is what keeps the UD from thriving. Though nothing here is set in stone. I just want players to feel like they can participate in content regardless of where their character is created.

It would be nice in my opinion to see more interactivity and letting some of these drow stretch their legs. It may even encourage more people to make UD characters if they can get some more RP surface side. There's surfacers that march down there consistently anyway, and the UD tends to be rather okay with it, since they are so starved of RP.

I've had 3 different UD characters, they're all deleted/RCR'd now because whenever I played I'd meet 2 players across 3 weeks of playing. It's a RP server, and I couldn't RP. Were I able to go to the surface, that may have been a different story.

200% yes. Let server 2 be the evil server with drow and other groups able to operate freely there. It already pretty much works like this, the rules and mechanics just haven't kept up with what is actually happening.

expanding/changing the map around Boarskyr slightly. Enlarging the camp fire area outside of the Northern Fort, perhaps turning it into a more hangout area similar to the fire near BG except for folks with looser morals. This would include removing the spawns in this area and perhaps even turning the fort itself into an inn? Just some ideas there that were thrown around.

I would like to remind the DM team of the proposal I posted a few weeks back on Boareskyr development. I'm pretty eager to develop the area.

If there is a strong IC reason that UD races are not allowed in Soubar then something needs to happen IC to allow their presence (DM side I imagine). I am not sure on my answer but at least we have time to think about it.

Xorena wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:56 pm If there is a strong IC reason that UD races are not allowed in Soubar then something needs to happen IC to allow their presence (DM side I imagine). I am not sure on my answer but at least we have time to think about it.

UD races aren't banned from those places ICly. They're freely allowed in Soubar, Blackrose fort, Zhentarim territories, and so on. Basically, most areas on server 2 already allow drow ICly (with the exception of places like EDE).

It would be cool if UD races can take a stroll on the Surface at their leisure (so without the "You must have a RP reason to go Above"), but keeping the KoS rule anyway. Besides, evil characters will try to befriend them anyway unless they're Lolthites (although shrewd Lolthites do take contact with Surfacers anyway).

Afterall, surfacers do not require a RP reason to go Below.

Deragnost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:59 pm It would be cool if UD races can take a stroll on the Surface at their leisure (so without the "You must have a RP reason to go Above"), but keeping the KoS rule anyway. Besides, evil characters will try to befriend them anyway unless they're Lolthites (although shrewd Lolthites do take contact with Surfacers anyway).

Afterall, surfacers do not require a RP reason to go Below.

Technically they do, but thankfully that rule never really gets enforced anymore on either side.

Personally for me I think back fondly on the days when the surface and UD could be explored by both factions without limitation except for whatever IC repercussions one would expect from said interactions. I also remember the hyjinx involved and honestly I’m fine policing things personally. We can easily time out anyone who doesn’t behave. Most of us are adults and honestly letting an area of our ancient game we love fade isn’t a good feeling.

Soubar and the northern tradeway areas are already perceived as being places you'll meet ne'er do-well's, so part of me thinks: why the heck not?

I agree that Boarskyr might not be an ideal area to make neutral, for the epic-content-jump-off reasons already mentioned, as well as it being the only route one can take to get to north Elf land(other than teleport), which might lead to some awkward scenarios. Perhaps Urk Lurka could be given a facelift/be re-purposed? The minotaur maze interior at Boarskyr might be a good spot too(mind you, if Boarskyr isn't neutral, there's little point). Both of those areas are sorely absent of almost any use.

(And, to be fair, on the subject of things being dead, I'm not sure the UD is exclusive in that regard. Plus, it's not entirely empty, it just feels like no-one wants to do anything together down there. Things tend to pick up once the nice weather starts to go away)

Snarfy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:14 pmI agree that Boarskyr might not be an ideal area to make neutral, for the epic-content-jump-off reasons already mentioned, as well as it being the only route one can take to get to north Elf land(other than teleport), which might lead to some awkward scenarios. Perhaps Urk Lurka could be given a facelift/be re-purposed? The minotaur maze interior at Boarskyr might be a good spot too(mind you, if Boarskyr isn't neutral, there's little point). Both of those areas are sorely absent of almost any use.
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I'd love to develop a 'way around', personally. I think BG needs more of those. Ways to move around sneakily around places. FAI has the back path, for example, but a lot of other places force you to stick to the main road.

Will underdark characters be able to loot chests as well on the surface?

My vote is: Remove, or loosen. Then create very consequential RP dynamics that are /enforced/ that are heavier than they are now, making that risk vs reward authentic.

Also, make very defined definitions for yourselves on what is considered to be a valid RP reason to go to the surface. (Raiding is not one, neither is seeing your surface hubby for fun times.) I say this as even DM's may get confused at times as to what is and what is not appropriate.

It's much like the PG-13 rule. I have seen mixed understanding on how that works. Needs to be very clearly defined for... some people it would seem.

Azroth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:34 pm My vote is: Remove, or loosen. Then create very consequential RP dynamics that are /enforced/ that are heavier than they are now, making that risk vs reward authentic.

Also, make very defined definitions for yourselves on what is considered to be a valid RP reason to go to the surface. (Raiding is not one, neither is seeing your surface hubby for fun times.) I say this as even DM's may get confused at times as to what is and what is not appropriate.

It's much like the PG-13 rule. I have seen mixed understanding on how that works. Needs to be very clearly defined for... some people it would seem.

Totally, we will have to (DM/Staff/Admins) sit down and discuss how to lay out the rules behind this. But there is little point in doing that until we get a feel for how the playerbase would feel about this first. No point in setting up rules for something that isn't going to happen if nobody wants it ect ect....