Scrying Improvement suggestions

[Kitunenotsume]

I would like to suggest that the Scrying Sensor conjured from [Scrying] and [Greater Scrying] should receive a reusable blink ability similar to Ki-Step.

My reasoning is that it is a floating magical sensor, but is currently stopped by things like small fences, rivers, and the general pathing map. Since it cannot interact with *anything* (which is reasonable), this means that the sensor can't actually look anywhere that the player cannot walk to from where they spent a minute summoning it. A closed gate or a jump-node is impassable for the little sensor.

A short range blink, restricted to line-of-sight, would allow the sensor to be a bit more flexible and maneuverable in floating through the map looking at things.

[Kitunenotsume]

After a bit more playing around with these spells, I have further suggestions to make, regarding their use and how they could be made a bit more satisfying to use.

1) Blink, as above.

2) Improve the duration
Currently they last 30 sec/CL (Normal) and minute/CL (Greater). This is in accordance with P&P, but as we have noted in other spells, this isn't P&P. Twenty minutes of scrying in P&P is a bit more powerful than the same in NWN2 due to speed of conversation limitations. Given the delays and how long RP can take, I've often found myself using two or three castings just to receive perhaps 20 lines of dialog from a group conversation, as RP can fairly often occur at less than one line per minute. Given the one-minute cast time and re-travel time of the sensor, this can mean a 10-15% downtime every 20 lines.
[edit] This might get resolved if the two spells receive their proper durations. Currently Greater Scrying does not last as long as other minute/level spells, and Scrying lasts only half that.

3) Fix use with voice-throw/tells/player-scry
Because the Scrying Sensor is scripted as a familiar, there are definite issues with dialog. I have noticed that any voice-throw (languages) while possessing the sensor are always emitted from the sensor, regardless of if I have my main character targeted. While processing the Sensor, it is also impossible to use /tells (with a dialog claiming that you can't because familiar) or the Player Scry utility, which is reasonable given differences in character IDs but in order to send or reply to any requires un-possessing the Sensor - which then needs to run all the way back to the caster in order to be re-controlled, in many circumstances.

4) It can cast spells?!?!? It really shouldn't.
Because it's scripted as a familiar, it can cast self and touch spells. While I think it's amusing that I can basically use it as a remote immune-to-everything buff-puff or remote spell-taser, I highly doubt that is the intention.

5) Clarity on how identifying a sensor works.
The [Scrying] and [Greater Scrying] spells say that the caster is identified by anyone who can see the sensor making a Spellcraft check that beats the DC of the spell. Meanwhile, the spell [Detect Scrying] says that the Scrying character gets to make a will save VS spells first, effectively meaning that Detect Scrying uses a 4th level spell to give the target (scrying char) a reasonable shot at being unidentified while without the spell they will almost certainly be identified.

Regardless of the saving throws, if a creature in close proximity is able to see the sensor it performs a spellcraft check against the spell's DC to identify the caster. If succesfull, both parties are informed and the eavesdropping party will have auto-consented to PvP. Due to its magical nature, a scrying sensor cannot be seen with Blind Sight.

When a scrying attempt is detected the scrying entity must immediately roll a will savingthrow vs spells. If this is failed the identity of the scryer immediately becomes known to the caster, derived from the target's magical mark on the scrying sensor. The saving throw is d20 + the caster's spellcraft skill vs the spell save DC of the scryer.

[Valefort]

1, 4 and 5 should work next update.

[Kitunenotsume]

Wonderful, thank you! #3 was also implemented when the Familiar chat update was introduced, so thats almost everything!

[Ref To:Link] I've sent you a PM with my duration experiments confirming the current unlisted duration reduction.

Given that it's being technically-defamiliarized, is there any likelihood the con damage on destruction could be addressed?

[Valefort]

I noticed the thread but it is still a familiar technically so I'm not sure how to work around the CON loss, a restoration effect would work but would also be more than it should be.

[Kitunenotsume]

I'm going to build off this thread with my observed interactions with Scrying since the update and all the changes is now in.
Please note - while I can play around with Scrying, my character is not a DC-caster nor dedicated diviner, I just have the spells available to test with. As such, some concerns may not be applicable to someone capable of getting stratospheric DCs, but should overall be reflective of a generic median caster.

1. Scrying sensor should now correctly bypass rolls for party members.
2. See Invis spells no longer spot the sensor for scrying. Warlock crawling eye can still be seen with see invis as it's a physical object.
3. Saving against the spell recalls the sensor but does not on its own allow the subject to know they were being scried on or to determine who sent the sensor. Detect Scrying will now be the only way to detect scrying and trace a scrying sensor back to its source.
4. A single target gets one save per reset against a single caster's scrying sensor. If you pass the save, any further attempts at scrying near you will automatically fail. If you fail the save, you can no longer make saves against that caster's scrying sensors until the next server reset.
5. Save radius increased to match Local-Say radius. [Confirmed in Discord]
6. Many ambient NPCs now force saves that didn't previously [Confirmed via extensive testing]

Letters added for reference.

My current testing results:

A) Seems to work, Party members do not recall sensor.

B) See Invisibility still detects the sensor, as does True Sight. I had some Ghosts in Fields of the Dead actually attack and kill the sensor. That said, with Improved Invisibility, my sensor can now uselessly attack allies without being revealed.

C) Seems to be working, Testing assistants reported no detection cues unless Detect Scrying was active. However, only scrying existence is confirmed, unless See Invisibility of some form is active, at which point identifying the originating caster is possible (and practically guaranteed, because Spellcraft VS Save DC).

D) Entirely unreliable - I have had a Cow save vs 9th level scrying (theoretical minimum DC 10+9+4=23), followed by letting my sensor hang out just fine. I've also had my scrying sensor be fine near players until they activated Detect Scrying (which instantly kicked my sensor home). It also seems like the scrying roll is unique per cast, not per server-reset (one cast might work on a target, next might not, next may work again)

E+F) The increase in radius and increase in save-forcing targets dramatically reduces how mobile the sensor is, as the sensor will be unable to pass by most NPCs with combat stats (and some that don't) due to the sheer distance required to cross. This has severely curtailed the utility of the spell to scout in dungeons as Arcane Eye might be used. The caster must also require that all characters (PC and NPC) within Local-Say range (Including through walls) fail the save on the current cast (equivalent to requiring every target fail the save on a Meteor Storm for anyone to be affected). As such, the following are valid counters to Scrying:

1. Having an active Nondetection
2. Having high Will saves
3. Standing near someone with High Saves or Nondetection
4. Standing near any guard NPC
5. standing near a hostile mob (such as being in combat)
6. standing near a summoned creature (Your own or someone elses)
7. standing in a group (as long as one person passes, you are all covered!)
8. Standing near a Cow, in once instance. (Evidently touched by Zanniej)
9. standing beyond anyone with the above, relative to the caster (my sensor is currently unable to cross the Wrym's Crossing Bridge without skillful use of Blink)
10. sitting someone near the caster so the Scrying Sensor remains on permanent timeout being recalled to said caster.
11. any AoE spell used nearby (Storm of Vengence, Wall of Fire, any straight damage. it's only got 10 HP, has no resistance to any damage, and deals 2 Con Drain to the caster on death!)

Other notes and observations:

1. Detect Scrying Radius is ~30% larger than Local-say radius, and will begin forcing saves at that range.
2. Blink works! it's pretty neat, and the only way of getting a sensor out of range if someone is near the caster.
3. My sensor can still cast spells. Due to the current limitations, that means pretty much only party-targets and ground targets (Raise dead is apparently castable from Scrying Sensor, but is potentially recalled as soon as it works if the raised target succeeds the save)
4. Durations are still very incorrect - which combined with the very long cast time (interrupted by party-joins and other events) and current impotence is even more painful.
5. Spell descriptions for Scrying/G.Scrying/Detect.Scrying have been unchanged to reflect current updates.
6. Sensor can still only be controlled when near the caster (within Local-Say range) and then piloted out. It thus requires a path to the intended destination, with Local-Say clearance on both sides that do not contain anyone who have or may pass the current Save (a separate requirement from everyone at the destination failing the save).
7. Scrying DCs are still not shown on cast (they disappeared during the February updates) ((Fixed!)), nor are any save rolls shown to either party (so no indicator if the spell worked, only if it failed).
8. When the caster is near a detecting target, both are spammed by combat log entries every round until the Scrying Sensor is far enough away to stop being recalled, or just unsummoned.
9. The sensor feedback log indicates that the Scrying caster fails a save against the detecting target upon recall, for any reason. In practice, the target would have succeeded on their save against the DC of the caster.
10. The spell is valid for detecting hidden characters within Local-Say range, due to the coding, along with reporting one hidden individual every 6 seconds.

Suggestions resultant from these observations:

1. Provide the Scrying Sensor with Low-Light/Darkvision if the caster possesses those senses (Doubly useful in that Darkvision is Local-Say radius and thus an indicator for moving around characters without potential recall)
2. Increase the take-control radius of Familiars to area-wide (This would also allow Clairaudience/Clairvoyance to be fitted to P&P)
3. permit or require targetting a single target as the Scrying focus that is the primary Save-or-fail roll (could be quite tricky to implement)
4. Reduce the Save radius back to prior distances unless the bystander is affected by Mindblank/Nondetection/Detect Scrying.
5. Increase the save DC, either flat, Vs NPCs, or if nearby a willing 'anchor' target (such as a party member who acts as a Scrying target)
6. Give the sensor plot invulnerability (reduced to but not below 0 HP) and unsummon on death; OR make it invulnerable, depending on sensor inspiration.
7. Script unsummon of sensor on expiration, instead of deleting the summon and retaining in-party.
8. Automatically include Blink on the Scrying Sensor's action-bar, or as a right-click creature ability.

The Scrying spell as currently implemented is a mix of Arcane Eye and Scrying. Relevant traits emphasized below, and non-included features struck out:

Hidden: show

Divination (Scrying)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes rounds
Range: Unlimited
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: 1 min./level (D) ((1/4-1/2 minute/level))
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You create an invisible magical sensor that sends you visual information. You can create the arcane eye at any point you can see, but it can then travel outside your line of sight without hindrance. An arcane eye travels at 30 feet per round (300 feet per minute) if viewing an area ahead as a human would (primarily looking at the floor) or 10 feet per round (100 feet per minute) if examining the ceiling and walls as well as the floor ahead. It sees exactly as you would see if you were there.

The eye can travel in any direction as long as the spell lasts. Solid barriers block its passage, but it can pass through a hole or space as small as 1 inch in diameter. The eye can’t enter another plane of existence, even through a gate or similar magical portal.

You must concentrate to use an arcane eye. If you do not concentrate, the eye is inert until you again concentrate.
[https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneEye.htm]

Divination (Scrying)
Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF, F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: See text
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: 1 min./level (D) ((1/4-1/2 minute/level))
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You can see and hear some creature, which may be at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the scrying attempt simply fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.

If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

As with all divination (scrying) spells, the sensor has your full visual acuity, including any magical effects. In addition, the following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating through the sensor: detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, and message.

If the save succeeds, you can’t attempt to scry on that subject again for at least 24 hours.
[https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm]

The net result is what we have:

Divination (Scrying)
Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 rounds
Range: Unlimited
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: ~1 minute/ 3 levels
Saving Throw: Will Special (See text)
Spell Resistance: Yes
You create an invisible magical sensor that sends you visual information. You must create the scrying sensor at your location, but it can then travel outside your line of sight without hindrance. An scrying sensor travels at 30 feet per round (300 feet per minute) if viewing an area ahead as a human would or 10 feet per round (100 feet per minute) in Search mode. It sees exactly as you would see if you were there ((uses Caster's Spot and Spellcraft, and a few other sensory skills)).

The sensor can travel in any direction as long as the spell lasts. Solid barriers block its passage, but it can pass through a hole or space as small as 1 inch in diameter. The sensor can Blink ((Creature feat)) to any location within 60 ft. that it has clear line-of-sight to. The eye can’t enter another plane of existence, even through a gate or similar magical portal, nor can it travel through open doors or transitions. The sensor is immune to most effects but has 10 HP and takes damage normally from all sources. If the sensor is destroyed for any reason, the caster takes 2 Con Drain that lasts through rests until cured.

Every creature that enters audible range of the sensor is permitted a Will-save. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the scrying sensor is recalled to the caster, and any attempt to scry near that subject again until the next reset will automatically recall the sensor.

You must concentrate to use an scrying sensor. If you do not concentrate, the sensor is inert until you again concentrate, and the sensor must be nearby the caster to be used again.[/i]

Further observations appreciated by anyone inclined to aid in testing.
I may have more to add once I've had a few more days of comparing the current interactions to their former states.
Wiki pages for Scrying, G.Scrying, and Detect.Scrying updated to reflect current states.