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Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:04 pm
by YYA
Well, I am a kind man at heart, so... I suggest the following feat to be added to the server:

Arcane Blow
Type of Feat: Reserve
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells. BAB 11.
Use: Selected, mode.

You enchant your weapon with an aura of force. As long as you have a force spell of 3rd level or higher available to cast, you can charge your melee attack with the power of a memorized force spell. If you successfully hit with your melee attack, the target is struck for 1d4 points of damage per level of the highest-level force spell you have currently available. This damage is in addition to any weapon damage that you deal with your attack, although the force aura effect will NOT trigger if no damage is caused by the weapon itself. Doing elemental damage or some other bonus damage effect from the weapon is enough though to trigger the blast. This reserve feat lasts until you successfully hit with your melee attack and is reapplied each round as a mode.

Trigger Spells: Mordenkainen's Sword, Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm, Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, Bigby's Interposing Hand, Bigby's Forceful Hand, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Bigby's Clenched Fist, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Orb of Force

Due to the great focus required to maintain it, it cannot be used simultaneous with Hideous Blow, Northlander Hewing Expose Weakness, or any other custom combat mode. Less intensive combat stances such as Power Attack, Parry, or Combat Expertise may be active at the same time.

Thoughts? Comments?

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:13 pm
by [DM] Grinning Death
I could see it similar to Crippling Strike, hitting once then having to reapply after the cooldown. But 1d4 per spell level is waaaaay too high otherwise.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:19 pm
by Valefort
although the force aura effect will NOT trigger if no damage is caused by the weapon itself
I don't think it's possible, otherwise up to 9d4 bonus damage, even if it's only once per round, is pretty huge, that would become a must pick for gishes !

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:28 am
by YYA
The avarage damage of 22.5~ is too much? Even when this moder would turn off Expose Weakness and Northlander Hewing, and potentially not work at all while Polymorphed? If too much is too much, well okay, so how about 1d3 per spell level, or 1d2? 18~ or 13.5~ magic damage per round respectively?

I guess at 1d2 the non gish wizard would still have reason to pick Invisible Needle Reserve feat onver this one.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:00 am
by DaloLorn
So a sort of Hideous Blow for arcanists (and possibly some clerics with the right domains, but I don't think so)?

I like it. It opens up some new possibilities for Bladesingers, Eldritch Knights, and arguably even Arcane Tricksters (though these last ones tend to be better off using Invisible Needles anyway, IMO, so that the enemy doesn't refocus on their stabby, squishy butts).

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:10 am
by Valefort
I'd like an explanation about why gishes need more damage.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:21 am
by DaloLorn
They probably don't.

On the other hand, arcane gishes don't hold a candle to archers, UMDing martials, warlocks, or divine gishes anyway, so it doesn't seem too harmful... especially not with the conditions YYA placed on it.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:28 am
by YYA
Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:10 amI'd like an explanation about why gishes need more damage.
I would say that it would be an alternative method of dealing that damage. Not all gishes are Barbarians who smash things with Northlander Hewing, not all gishes are religiously devoted fanatics who channel their divine favour, and thus this would offer an arcane alternative to find that extra bit of damage.

13,5~ Magic Damage per round is not quite the same thing a Shapeshifting or strength based arcanist could get with Northlander Hewing feat, and with every hit that lands.

And even though it would be potentially more damage for any EDM gish, in my opinion EDM gishes would be far better off with their Northlander Hewing and Expose Weakness combat modes.

Not to mention, as DalaLorn pointed out, it would be kind of like arcane version of Hideous Blow, which would make it little easier for those Hideous Blow Warlocks to pretend that were not Warlocks. Thus, all in all, some members of this community would have far fewer annually repeating complaints.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:38 am
by Valefort
As far as i'm concerned the existence of better alternatives is not a sufficient argument when arcane Gish builds are already playable, without EW or NH. What kind of Gish builds would need such a feat to be playable ?

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:46 am
by Hoihe
Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:38 am As far as i'm concerned the existence of better alternatives is not a sufficient argument when arcane Gish builds are already playable, without EW or NH. What kind of Gish builds would need such a feat to be playable ?
Duskblade imitation classes.

Basically, a class that uses minimal buffs, has mostly int rather than str. Its spellslots are spent on damage/disables.

Due to how necessary buffs are, and how int based damage doesn't synergize with NH even with combat insight, such a build cannot function in high epics due to lack of damage.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:50 am
by Valefort
Such builds are already perfectly playable.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:07 am
by DaloLorn
Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:50 am Such builds are already perfectly playable.
I'm curious how those would work, considering the overwhelming majority of melee builds tend to incorporate either NH or EW as appropriate. I guess maybe a swashbuckler/wizard, though you'll have to lose a good deal of spell progression or be nigh-useless against sneak-immune enemies... and good luck getting a sorcerous equivalent out the door.

For my part, all of my arcane gishes rely on NH/EW and/or some combination of reserve feats (circumventing the need for a weapon), sneak attacks, shapechanging, or teammates to kill anything not worth burning half your spell slots.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:36 am
by Valefort
It's INT based bladesinger territory essentially, either with a modicum of STR or DEX. Otherwise replace Bladesinger with dragonslayer or more wizard or fighter levels depending on your preferences and dispelphobia.

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:46 am
by Steve
Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:36 am It's INT based bladesinger territory essentially, either with a modicum of STR or DEX. Otherwise replace Bladesinger with dragonslayer or more wizard or fighter levels depending on your preferences and dispelphobia.
Please finally give us our Spellsword...PLEASE!!!!

https://dndtools.org/classes/spellsword/

Re: Gish - Melee Reserve Feat

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:56 am
by DaloLorn
Steve wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:46 am
Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:36 am It's INT based bladesinger territory essentially, either with a modicum of STR or DEX. Otherwise replace Bladesinger with dragonslayer or more wizard or fighter levels depending on your preferences and dispelphobia.
Please finally give us our Spellsword...PLEASE!!!!

https://dndtools.org/classes/spellsword/
Awww, 5/10 progression. :(

Looks neat, though.