Wizard or Sorcerer?

[Random_wanderer]

Hi all,
I will rcr and remake a char. I was thinking 10\10\10 with ASOC and Archmage. Which one is better in your opinion? Wiz or Sor?
Also any other prestige class helpful for I guess pure caster with summon support. Can I squize in 3-4 levels from another class? And maybe do not complete Arcane acholar fully.
What are some of the must have feats?
Thanks

[Deathgrowl]

If you want summon support, consider thaumaturge.

What is best, though? That depends on what you expect out of it. What you want it to do. "Pure caster" can be so many things. Blaster? Control? Support?

Sorcerer will always be a better blaster than a wizard, simply due to more spells per day. That's what blasters live of. They still won't be as good as meleers in single target combat, but they're also not supposed to be.

Controllers can be both sorcerers and wizards, though personally I prefer wizard. Controllers can be difficult to get right, and the added versatility of wizard helps give it some leeway. One of my favourite combinations is wizard16/asoc10/archmage4. This gets me high DCs in my chosen school, but also quite high DCs in other schools as well, and it gives me the full benefit of ASOC metamagics to complement any blasting that sometimes need doing.

Support is more about buffing than anything. Both wizard and sorcerer can work here, but I would advise wizard, for versatility. A summoner works well under this, since summoning also is much about buffing your summon. It also serves well as a battlefield controller with more simple spells like grease, web or the bigby hands.

[Random_wanderer]

If you want summon support, consider thaumaturge.

What is best, though? That depends on what you expect out of it. What you want it to do. "Pure caster" can be so many things. Blaster? Control? Support?

Sorcerer will always be a better blaster than a wizard, simply due to more spells per day. That's what blasters live of. They still won't be as good as meleers in single target combat, but they're also not supposed to be.

Controllers can be both sorcerers and wizards, though personally I prefer wizard. Controllers can be difficult to get right, and the added versatility of wizard helps give it some leeway. One of my favourite combinations is wizard16/asoc10/archmage4. This gets me high DCs in my chosen school, but also quite high DCs in other schools as well, and it gives me the full benefit of ASOC metamagics to complement any blasting that sometimes need doing.

Support is more about buffing than anything. Both wizard and sorcerer can work here, but I would advise wizard, for versatility. A summoner works well under this, since summoning also is much about buffing your summon. It also serves well as a battlefield controller with more simple spells like grease, web or the bigby hands.

Hi, Thanks for your reply. I guess I meant by pure caster by someone who doesn't draw his sword and rush into battle. I guess blaster mainly with some control but need to think about what to do when spells memorized are almost done with and still plenty of time to rest/ or nowhere to rest.
Thaumaturgist looks very interesting. Summons do a lot of work In this server, to be honest. But to what extent they are useful at LVL 30?
is that even possible to get wizard/scholar/archmage/thaumaturgy?
Can max/near max DC be achieved if Archmage is dropped?
Your build didn't have combat expertise, what is the final AC Archived/required? My cleric with 52 AC with premonition still gets hit all right.
Also, the main question between the main classes is the spontaneous casting ability of the Sorcerer vs Wizards wider spell but and access to skills. If anyone else would like to comment.
Thanks

[Steve]

is that even possible to get wizard/scholar/archmage/thaumaturgy?

A long time ago I made this build using Sorcerer. A Wizard would be even easier to build: https://nwn2db.com/build/?202011 It would need to be updated to take the Extended Evocation spells feat (forgot what it's called).

Sorcerer is so much better now that it was custom buffed to receive extra spells per level. It makes a world of difference.

The think about Arcane casters is to simply never get them into a melee based fight. Use meat shields, I mean friends, to be front liners and just hold back until your massive power spike is needed for the right time. Having some Summons makes your play style more interesting, and it's even possible to solo with a summons, but not at the highest XP rate per Area per CR that one can do with a twinked melee based PC.

[bharring]

Despite the shared spell list, Wizard and Sorc do different things.

Sorcs channel power. They've got a handful of spells, and they cast them a lot. If you want to throw around a lot of arcane power, Sorcs are where it's at.

Wizards are experts. They prepare the right tool for the right job. They'll never cast as many spells as a Sorc, but if they know what they're getting into, they should have the right spell.

Don't take a Sorc to be a magical expert/sage. Don't take a Wizard to be a champion blaster.

Whichever you take, you won't have enough casts to deal with all threats via spell slots. So you need to make your spells count. Common ways to do that are:
-Buffs: Most spellslot casters here get more out of buffs than offensive or debuffing spells. But you're not looking for a buff&bash (and I find that boring, too).

-Summons: A summon will usually do a lot more damage over it's lifetime than any offensive spell. While also keeping the enemy busy. A couple low-level casters I've toyed with actually summon something then go invisible, and let it do all the work. The Thaumaterge PRC is built around doing summons better, although I don't have experience with it.

-Reserve Spells: There are a couple feats that act sort of like 5e cantrips - they are basic attack spells that get more powerful when you get higher level. Technically, they scale with the highest level memorized spell you still have for that type of damage.
Need to watch out for AoE damage (the fire one will kill your friends, lightning is hard to keep away from friends, but the force one is singletarget thus safe).
And need to ensure you have a spell of that damage type prepared in your highest slot possible (other caster types have more trouble with this: a druid who takes the lightning one goes from level 9 (5th level spells) to 17 (9th level spells) with only 5d6 damage).
These spells won't do a ton of damage, but give you some sustained magical blasting damage. Which fits the type of character you're going for.
Also, there's Rune feats as well. Work like other Reserve feats, but on a short cooldown, do more damage, and only hurt enemies.

-Honorable mention - Reignite Invocation: If you want to blast more, take the Spell Focus:Invocation feat line. They let you recast any Invocation spells a second time right after. Basically doubling your spellslots. Still won't solve all your fighting needs, but helps a ton (until you find out your favorite blasting spell is Conjuration not Invocation).

Unfortunately, spell slot casting does not scale well to things like this persistent world. Allow too many rests, and spellcasters are OP, throwing out level 9 spells most encounters. Don't offer enough rests, and spellcasters go dry. There's no real way to balance slots-per-rest across adventuring paces. It's a great system for p&p RP, but bad for computer games.

But that doesn't mean non-buff&bash casters can't be fun. My main character is a druid without Natural Spell, because he's a blaster, not a shifter (Storm druid...). It's not a meta or competitive build, but it can stand up enough for RP reasons, and can solo basic level-appropriate content. So you can do it. But don't expect to rock content like meta builds.

My druid practically spams the lighting Reserve Spell and Rune, and my favorite wizard just summons then hides. But you'll likely be best off using both; summon a frontliner, then Reserve Spell blast things.

[Deathgrowl]

Your build didn't have combat expertise, what is the final AC Archived/required? My cleric with 52 AC with premonition still gets hit all right.

If I end up in a situation where I need that kind of AC, I am doing something wrong.

EDIT:
Sorry, that was a little bit too cheeky. What I mean is, as a controller wizard, I don't want to ever get into such situations. I want to be using defensive casting anyways. Mirror images and displacement/greater invisibility does wonders for defense, where AC is lacking. The point is however, that the fight should be over before it ever becomes a problem. That's the goal of playing a controller.

[Dolorof]

10 wiz/10 AM/ 10 ASOC is a classic wizard build, you can't go wrong with it.
IMO the most important aspect of a wizard is its spellbook, for a sorcerer i can't really say as i don't play those. The build you suggested is a very solid one and you will understand why once you play it.

[Rhifox]

Wizard best.

[Lockonnow]

Wizard is a RP get more Skills point Sorcerer if you know how to RP a Sorcerer and for the thaumaturge.need lots of wards so iam not sure if is a good one from for more slots of spell and feats and what about the Divive Arch Caster like Priest of some Domain and Hierophant and Thaumaturge now that is a powerfull think

[Steve]

I love the idea of a controller Sorcerer, who uses their innate connection to the Weave and their Willpower to dominate, instead of a Wizard that is intellectually using the Weave as a tool via scripture to control.

Which is why I also greatly enjoy the controller Warlock.

The skill at playing either Wiz or Sorc is as DG says: the PC isn’t a frontliner, and should be “manipulating” from the second line or further back, EXCEPT for those few moments when the PC steps upfront and releases the nuclear option.

[Random_wanderer]

is that even possible to get wizard/scholar/archmage/thaumaturgy?

A long time ago I made this build using Sorcerer. A Wizard would be even easier to build: https://nwn2db.com/build/?202011 It would need to be updated to take the Extended Evocation spells feat (forgot what it's called).

Sorcerer is so much better now that it was custom buffed to receive extra spells per level. It makes a world of difference.

The think about Arcane casters is to simply never get them into a melee based fight. Use meat shields, I mean friends, to be front liners and just hold back until your massive power spike is needed for the right time. Having some Summons makes your play style more interesting, and it's even possible to solo with a summons, but not at the highest XP rate per Area per CR that one can do with a twinked melee based PC.

Edited:

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the feedback so far. I will experiment with some options.
Right now I first want to try 'wizard/scholar/archmage/thaumaturge' on the JeG's server.
With spell caster prodigy Wizard can turn ASOC at lvl 6, THAUMA at level 10 and I will go ARCMAGE somewhere around 16.
I want to get extend spell. And I have no room left for combat expertise. Worthy to be picked at an epic level, Steve?
Can I ask which spells I shouldn't miss while leveling on the server? Basically the spells I can not find as a scroll on the game.
Thanks everyone

[darwin.evenwood]

viewtopic.php?f=149&t=57467

you can find the list of spells that can and cannot be written, wanded, elixired and whatever. i think it's updated to the most recent spells added

[Rhifox]

Every spell can be scribed now. If there's any you find are missing let us know, but most should be scribable. However, not all spells are available in stores, and the linked guide, while fairly complete, is still missing a lot of new stuff (or says merchants have things they don't, mainly Soubar scribe vendor is missing some things the guide says it has).

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Wizard.

[Tsidkenu]

Every spell can be scribed now. If there's any you find are missing let us know, but most should be scribable. However, not all spells are available in stores, and the linked guide, while fairly complete, is still missing a lot of new stuff (or says merchants have things they don't, mainly Soubar scribe vendor is missing some things the guide says it has).

If anyone cares to give me updates I'll fix the OP of the guide.