Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Are drow babies born with a sacrificial dagger in thier hands, or are they converted to thier evil ways in youth?

By saying both that would be voting as born bad. Inherently evil. Like a monster race would be.
What ever lloth did to corrupt the drow is done. She doesn't have to actively attempt to continually corrupt a drow hearts as they are already corrupted.

Any practice of evil and chaos after that is just done for fun.

Tekill wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:59 pm Are drow babies born with a sacrificial dagger in their hands, or are they converted to their evil ways in youth?

This is synonymous with the Nature vs. Nurture argument.

A nativist (“nature”) account of development would argue that the processes in question are innate and influenced by the child's genes. While an empiricist (“nurture”) perspective would argue that these processes are acquired through interaction with the environment.

I opine all Drow Children are born with the innate traits necessary for their long-term survival in the UD. These traits are nurtured and refined over time by their interaction with said environment.

This begs the question... Would a Drow newborn, if brought to the surface immediately after birth and nurtured in traditions of their foster parents on the surface, still have evil tendencies?

Cheers!

It is nurture unless you follow 3.5e lore which points to nature. In 1e/2e Drow were raised in an evil society beholden to one evil deity or another, primarily Lolth. Humanoid sacrifice, creating undead, racism and slaughtering people on the surface are norms of the culture which is in part due to the commandments of the majority of their pantheon. Drow were also taught from a young age to not even trust their caregivers, due to abuse. They were also taught not to trust their compatriots due to everyone in typical Drow cities vainly trying to gain the approval of a fickle and cruel goddess, Lolth. They also didn't really have the same notions of modesty that we do. For instance it was commonplace for newly graduated clergy to rape newly graduated warriors, even having incest occur. Some never fit in despite this. It is noted that Drow on the surface very rarely chose the path of evil. It was estimated that around 15% of Drow were naturally born good while the majority were born neutral - most of which would succumb to their cruel society.

In 3.5e you have a demon that Lolth tied to the Drow named Wendonai whose blood corrupts them.

Essentially you have a choice between tortured edgy(to the point of monstrous) elves that are in part victims of circumstance and cartoonishly evil monsters that could never truly be redeemed.

If they were then Drizzt and the other good drow would not exist, therefor since they do exist the answer is no. Simple logic.

In this setting both nature and nurture includes the will of the gods. They make us then they mettle in our affairs.

E1/2 its nurture. Lloth constantly corrupting drow culture?

E3 its nature. Said evil God created a race of monster elves.
Then they double down by continuing said path of evil.

So both. Born wicked then staying wicked.

I guess Drizzt is a genetic mutation.

This is my personal take which is, of course, just opinion that may or may not be aligned with actual lore. But i think that outside of extraplanar embodiments of certain alignments. Such as Devils and Demons, Celestials, Elementals, etc. It's hard to sell ideas that all members of a given race are inherently of one alignment. I can buy natural predisposition, but I cannot ignore that nurture may also play a role. I can fit something like a Drow in this interpretation really well. Perhaps their nature does nudge them towards evil. But it is clear nurture plays a big role, else they wouldn't need to be educated on how to survive. They'd just naturally fall into the "proper way" to act.

This allows the norm in the Underdark to remain plausible and sustainable, while also allowing room to diverge from the norm.

My take on it is similar to that of tieflings (or aasimar for that matter!). They're not bound by their ancestor's alignment, but they certainly have tendencies towards it. They can however choose to fight against this tendency.

I think it's the same with most drow. Their tainted blood pulls them towards the nature of the balor who afflicted them. But they also are born and grow up in a society that reinforces that alignment. So there's less reasons for them to choose anything else. Less reason to struggle against it. Indeed far more reasons to embrace it, for that is how they survive in that culture and environment.

Tekill wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:13 pm In this setting both nature and nurture includes the will of the gods. They make us then they mettle in our affairs.

E1/2 its nurture. Lloth constantly corrupting drow culture?

E3 its nature. Said evil God created a race of monster elves.
Then they double down by continuing said path of evil.

So both. Born wicked then staying wicked.

I guess Drizzt is a genetic mutation.

Not what I was saying at all. Drizzt himself is rare due to never succumbing at any point to his society and not being killed himself. Typically Eilistraee does her best to save those she can from the society the Drow find themselves in. Every Drow at one point in their lives hears her song, sometimes leading even the most wicked of matron mothers to leave for the surface and seek redemption. With 1e/2e redemption being possible was the rule for the vast majority of Drow. Each Drow was essentially a living and breathing tragedy. 3.5e changed that.

Moridin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:27 pm

Tekill wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:13 pm In this setting both nature and nurture includes the will of the gods. They make us then they mettle in our affairs.

E1/2 its nurture. Lloth constantly corrupting drow culture?

E3 its nature. Said evil God created a race of monster elves.
Then they double down by continuing said path of evil.

So both. Born wicked then staying wicked.

I guess Drizzt is a genetic mutation.

Not what I was saying at all. Drizzt himself is rare due to never succumbing at any point to his society and not being killed himself. Typically Eilistraee does her best to save those she can from the society the Drow find themselves in. Every Drow at one point in their lives hears her song, sometimes leading even the most wicked of matron mothers to leave for the surface and seek redemption. With 1e/2e redemption being possible was the rule for the vast majority of Drow. Each Drow was essentially a living and breathing tragedy. 3.5e changed that.

But Drizzt father (Zauknafein or something?) Was also good like him, and one of his sisters while loyal to Lolth, Vierna I think showed a lot of sadness for drizzt father death and his brother gone missing.

So it's not actually that rare if 3 drow in a Lolth house aren't inherently evil.

yyj wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:25 pm But Drizzt father (Zauknafein or something?) Was also good like him, and one of his sisters while loyal to Lolth, Vierna I think showed a lot of sadness for drizzt father death and his brother gone missing.

So it's not actually that rare if 3 drow in a Lolth house aren't inherently evil.

Exactly. Those two both succumbed to their society. They were never inherently evil, and Zaknafein had been good enough before everything that Drizzt was able to live because of him realistically. Zaknafein still was filled with rage however, and would take it out on other Drow, often through killing them. He turned on Lolth in the end.

Vierna ended up serving Lolth to the end, due to her desire to claim vengeance against her brother. My character Lomith as a concept was heavily influenced by Vierna.

OR..
All three of them being immediate blood relatives, all shared the same mutant gene. An inherent weakness in an otherwise perfect code of the master race.
This is why lloth and her priestesses are so diligent in finding drow with this mutation and turning them into driders.
Cleaning the taint.
So this would support the born bad theory.

Drow babies are evil unless they are weak mutant freaks. As evidenced from the need to do things like dance under the moon and other such acts of heresy.

Deathgrowl wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:27 pm My take on it is similar to that of tieflings (or aasimar for that matter!). They're not bound by their ancestor's alignment, but they certainly have tendencies towards it. They can however choose to fight against this tendency.

I think it's the same with most drow. Their tainted blood pulls them towards the nature of the balor who afflicted them. But they also are born and grow up in a society that reinforces that alignment. So there's less reasons for them to choose anything else. Less reason to struggle against it. Indeed far more reasons to embrace it, for that is how they survive in that culture and environment.

This pretty much summarises my thoughts on the matter.

Some cultures in the world teach little kids to hate others groups with murderous hatred. Some kids eventually grow to adults and outgrow that. Some don't. Some don't really care.